Compilation: Capped Dungeons, pro and contra arguments

[Rentahamster]

Because your argument is based on the assumption that the macro system will (soon) be overhauled.

That was just a side point, since there are no plans in the short term, but the devs have stated that this is a goal of theirs. The main point point was that the difference between rank 25 and rank 50 is the disappearance of only 15 skills, which are not all used anyway (depending on class. It would be more inconvenient for mages, for example). Compared to the problems that the macro system have already, the disruption caused by a delevel-sync really isn't that bad.

[Rinsui]

@Rentahamster
正直に言うと、貴方の立場がとても良く分かります。特に、現在の仕組みではR１５等でも、他クラスのアビリが使えるなのではないでしょうか。と言うのは、別にマクロを修正しなくても。。。（笑）。が、一応、低レベルで余り意味・効果が無いアビリをアビリバーから処分したい方も居ると思われます。その仕事を「マイナー」と定義しても、論争の相手は納得できないと思うのではないでしょうか。

[Rentahamster]

okie dokie

[Krausus]

I dont think there is anymore point in arguing this with you, you take an example make it out to be a huge issue when it isn't, that is hyperbole plain and simple, I have watch time and time again hyperbole be used to sway game changes for the worse (see AoC).

So good luck with your elite rank 25 dungeon competitions, maybe you will get a trophy or something.

[Rentahamster]

I dont think there is anymore point in arguing this with you, you take an example make it out to be a huge issue when it isn't, that is hyperbole plain and simple, I have watch time and time again hyperbole be used to sway game changes for the worse (see AoC).

So good luck with your elite rank 25 dungeon competitions, maybe you will get a trophy or something.

The fact that you really think I'm doing this out of some snobby, elitist intention of unfairness means that you miss the point of my arguments entirely.

[MeowyWowie]

Here's two more counterarguments.

- With capped content, you'd be forced to store low level equipment for each job you intend to enter the dungeon with. Given the limited storage space we have, that's a definite no-go; and the scaling algorithms currently in place do not fully scale you high level gear to be exactly equal to low-level gear worn at the appropriate level. Counterargument: None so far

The game seems to have already been designed with level caps in mind. The vast majority of gear already scales down in level as do all abilities. So even if you enter as a scaled down Lv50 with high rank gear, your additional high level abilities will help balance you compared to someone of correct level with gear appropriate to their level. You will never need to hold on to "capped gear-sets."

- People would have to re-do all their macros. Which is not just a hassle, but impossible for players with several jobs at max level, because there simply is no macro space left to accomodate all the gearswaps, ability settings and different battle-macros. Counter argument: None so far

As stated above, most gear and ALL abilities can be used at any level. There's no reason to ever edit macros. A Lv50 can enter with their exact skill-set and gear-set as they normally use and play their class exactly as they would outside of a level-capped instance, just scaled down.

Both arguments seem very similar.

[Reika]

Level Caps for FFXIV wouldn't be at all as bad as level caps for XI, since you can use equipment above your level with stats scaled down.

[Rinsui]

Added until this point.
Actually there was little to add, because Renta and TheVedis just argued opinions. Guys, this is not about how FFXIV is in comparison to other games out there; unless all (or the clear majority of) other games with/without feature X failed, saying feature X is objectively bad is... subjective.

I believe one such point of divergent opinions is whether LV 25 content should remain "challenging" for high level players or not. Honestly, I can see no logical, definite argument for why it should be either way if you only look at the challenge. I do see the balancing issue (good loot for little effort), though.

[TheVedis]

Added until this point.
Actually there was little to add, because Renta and TheVedis just argued opinions. Guys, this is not about how FFXIV is in comparison to other games out there; unless all (or the clear majority of) other games with/without feature X failed, saying feature X is objectively bad is... subjective.

the main problem with saying other games dont matter is that is actualy what half the pro arguement is

they want it to be like 11, cuz they liked 11

so other games do come into this discussion due to that alone

[Rinsui]

Well, Vedis, FFXI did something different than most other MMOs, and in this context it serves as an example that a feature can work. The only problem I see is when the pro-faction claims that because feature X was in 11, it has to be in 14, too (which, up to this point, I think they didn't).

Just because there's no PvP doesn't mean that there's no game balance. We're still all competing with each other even in a PvE-only environment. We still compete to have the best items, and be the best players. If there's no skill requirement to backup our underlying accomplishments, then those accomplishments are rendered meaningless.

Hmm. I *think* the contra-faction claims that low-level gear and dungeons are (and should be) meaningless for a high level player anyway. Instead, for high level players (and, in extension, their low-level friends) the whole game challenge should focus on end-game, with mid-level content just being a transitory (and, with enough outside help: skippable) phase on the way to the top. So while some people want the whole game to be challenging, with no way to "cheat" your way to victory, others insist that the only real challenge should be endgame anyway.

Krausus, did I understand this right?

Btw:

BS, plain and simple lol competing with rank 25 content.... really?!

In principle, something similar war attempted in FFXI with capped Balistas. So it's not completely ridiculous. A bad example, though, because Balistas died out pretty fast. A better example would be, perhaps, Vampiric Claws, obtainable only from a capped CoP area in FFXI. At least on my server, they were considered *pretty* cool, just because everybody knew about the hassle to obtain them. But that's only one example which doesn't really prove anything.