Men in Dresses

[Mhaeric]

Sorry I don't agree like I said before, if he wanted to wear a dress then he should of chose a female character.

Devs have the right to say no like everyone else does, I find it funny that people want to be accepted and they are but when someone says to them No they can't accept that and throw a huge tantrum like a little kid who begs for candy and doesn't get what they want and kicks and screams on the floor.

It has nothing to do with discrimination or that they are against gays or cross dressers, they just don't allow it in their game and you need to accept that if you believe in equal rights simple as that. because if you don't then your equal rights crap you talk about is a lie how can it be equal if you get everything you wanted and others do not serious.

Claiming that it's not equal because you don't get your way when it comes to being able to discriminate against someone is not a sound principle to base your argument on. Equal rights does not mean everyone gets everything their way all the time. It means everyone has the freedom to live as who they are openly without discrimination, with full access to the same rights that every one else has access to. Disallowing someone to be able to do something because of who they are or disallowing because it's not something you agree with is not such a right. It's not a right of any kind at all, in fact. People have a right to think that something is not right, and even express that belief, but they don't have a right to actually make those thoughts a reality that disenfranchises others of actual rights.

Your statement that LGBT people want to get everything their way is also false, and shows your bias. We don't want everything to go our way all the time. We just want to be able to do everything that the majority is able to do in the manner that makes sense for us and be able to do it without facing discrimination.

For example, straight people can get married to each other in real life and in games with no questions asked, but gay people are denied being able to marry each other in both arenas on a daily basis. And even those who are able to be married continuously deal with people reacting poorly to their use of terms such as 'my husband' and 'my wife' to describe their significant others such as denying them services when they find out they are a same-sex couple. And more to the point of this thread, straight and cis people are able to dress in ways that match their identity without anyone batting an eyelash. But trans and gender-queer people have to deal with hostile stares and comments on a daily basis simply because their clothing and gender expression does not conform to what most people perceive as normal. And the number of trans people who are fired every year because of beginning their transition is staggering.

All we are asking for is that we be allowed to do these things in the first place and without being treated as less than when we are allowed to do them. None of this prevents others from being allowed to do these same things in a way consistent with their own identity. Us gaining our rights does not diminish your rights. It's not a zero sum equation. It's a boundless pool of equality. It is specifically for this reason that I know history will be on our side, and not those who wish to limit the rights of LGBT people.

[HeroSamson]

snip

Okay answer this does a preacher have the right to say no to same sex marriage? simple question.

Then my second question does Square Enix have the right to say No to the dresses?

Do I have a right to my opinion or does your opinion the only one that matters, that's where you guys just don't get it.

Its Square Enix's world and in their world guys don't wear dresses who cares if bard wears pink ever hear of fight against cancer people wear pink all the time for it.

[Mhaeric]

Okay answer this does a preacher have the right to say no to same sex marriage? simple question.

Yes. Religion is a protected class, and a preacher cannot be forced to perform a religious ceremony that is against that religion's teachings. This, however, does not extend to anything that a member or group of said religion does. It only applies to the actual application of the religion itself. E.g. If your church operates a hall as a business, it cannot restrict anyone from the use of that hall for any reason because the hall itself is not a function of that religion. It would be able to restrict the use of the chapel itself for such purpose, however, because the chapel operates as a function of the religion itself.

Then my second question does Square Enix have the right to say No to the dresses?

Companies do not have rights. If a company chooses to restrict options based on gendered assumptions, they can do so. However, it does not mean we have to accept it, nor does it mean that arguing in support of having the option means we are throwing a temper tantrum because we are not getting our way. This is no different than making a request for any other feature or addition, except that there is significant vocal opposition to it for reasons that extend beyond just the feature itself.

Do I have a right to my opinion or does your opinion the only one that matters, that's where you guys just don't get it.

You have a right to your opinion. You do not have a right to force that opinion on others when it would limit their rights. That is where you just don't get it.

[Versiroth]

You have a right to your opinion. You do not have a right to force that opinion on others when it would limit their rights. That is where you just don't get it.

Irony... FTW.

[Mhaeric]

Irony... FTW.

Please explain how someone else wearing a dress in any way limits the rights of another person.

Or to extend it further in scale, please explain how granting rights to LGBT people in any way limits the rights of non-LGBT people.

[Versiroth]

Please explain how someone else wearing a dress in any way limits the rights of another person.

Because they're religious and don't want to see men wearing girly dresses? Or they think such things would cheapen their experience? If you have the right to want to see men wearing frilly dresses, then others have the right to not want to see men wearing frilly dresses. Stop acting like your opinions and play preferences should override others. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them disagreeing with you.

[Scarletyoshi]

Stop acting like your opinions and play preferences should override others.

Irony... FTW.

But let me circumvent this little tête-à-tête with some truth. All opinions are not equal. There are opinions that we, as a good and civil society, have deemed unworthy, unwanted, and unrespected.

I bow out, not from lack of conviction but with the recognition that some are simply lost to the void of their own poison, and I leave you huddled masses with a quote in the hope you'll find your own way free. A quote from a game developer who had the choice between right and wrong and choose RIGHT (in every sense of the glorious word):

"The person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least."

[Mhaeric]

Because they're religious and don't want to see men wearing girly dresses? Or they think such things would cheapen their experience?

Those are not rights. Those are opinions.

If you have the right to want to see men wearing frilly dresses, then others have the right to not want to see men wearing frilly dresses.

You have the right to hold these opinions. You can not want to see men in dresses as much as you like. Have at it. Be disgusted by those male dress-wearers as much as you want!

As long as you don't actually do anything that would harm or restrict them simply because you don't like seeing them. That is not a right that anyone has about anything.

Stop acting like your opinions and play preferences should override others.

Your play preference only applies to yourself. It does not allow you to restrict how others play the game. How does someone else wearing a dress in any way limit or restrict your gameplay?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with them disagreeing with you.

Correct, there is nothing wrong with someone disagreeing. Read every single one of my posts. I have said this in pretty much every single one, almost verbatim in a couple cases.