Honestly, let SE make as much money as they can.

[Manuka]

Interesting point you make there. If that time DOES come that space becomes an issue, whether it be 2 years or 2 months, You would just have to ask yourself the same question as you would now, "Do I really need to keep all of this?" If you do, fine...buy another retainer. If not, then get rid of some of the extra baggage. SE is not forcing you keep every single thing you accumulate.

Ah, but you're operating under the assumption that SE will make it easy for you to answer such a question as we move forward with such a service in place. An example, ever since I joined this game there has been one QoL subject that I've seen pop up consistently; crafting to have use end-game. I can sincerely see SE "caving-in" to community demand and making crafting more integral to end game progression either through max ilvl crafted gear or allowing materia attachments to raid gear, which will have the intended effect of jacking up the number of 'needed' inventory space. Or how about all those near useless potions? Well now they all have an actual purpose with respectable CD's and will be highly useful to clear some hard content. What about those ventures? I can see them creating 'venture-only' minions/ mats which will create a demand for additional retainers while putting others at a disadvantage for not having them. The only reason why it's so easy to decide what to keep and what not now is because 90% of the stuff you get in this game is vendor-trash, but I can guarantee you that they'll spend every man hour to change that if they see potential for free profit.

Of course all of this is conjecture but from my experience game companies (especially f2p/b2p mmos) will often fashion content that will 'nudge' you into wanting to buy some item/ service by constantly inconveniencing you with in-game design choices but never directly requiring you to buy it, instead giving you the illusion of choice when you finally cave-in. But the sheer fact that this is a p2p game and that they're already considering double-dipping this early in the games lifespan, it's a pretty bad precedent for what's to come. I can see a lotta good players hopping off Mr Bones' Wild Ride before we start seeing $30 glamour skins in the shop.

[Zwipe]

(EDIT)
Wild Ride before we start seeing $30 glamour skins in the shop.

Nice read. But really, can you blame SE for trying to make more money? They are a business after all, and thats what businesses do, maximize profit. By the same token, paying customers like you and me are naturally going to try get the most out of our money, because its in our nature as a paying customer. It's not nice too call people CHEAP because they are just trying the most out of their money, right? By the same token, it's not cool to call a company CROOKS because they are trying to maximize their profit. SE has already proven that they are willing to compromise with their customers (excellent by the way). Its only good business to pass the bone back to SE here and there as well.

The day customers stop implying SE as crooks for trying to maximize profit, is the day I stop implying customers are cheap for trying to get the most out of their money.

But really, when it comes down to it, people are just being cheap.

[Amberion]

But really, can you blame SE for trying to make more money?

Yes i can. Specially with a game that had as crappy start as FFXIV. And as you said, they are in it for the money. Do you really think they will sell useless things? Or things that won't have any effect on ingame things like the market?

The day customers stop implying SE as crooks for trying to maximize profit, is the day I stop implying customers are cheap for trying to get the most out of their money.

I don't think most are against this because of the price. Pretty much just the principle of P2P not having cash shops. If people where cheap, then they would have gone for a F2P or B2P game.

[Shneibel]

I don't think most are against this because of the price. Pretty much just the principle of P2P not having cash shops. If people where cheap, then they would have gone for a F2P or B2P game.

I dont see retainer service as cash shop, but if we see it from your and other ppl point of view then fantasia is also cash shop. So if you say no to retainer then it will be a no to Fantasia too, they both share the same boat

@Razzle: got post cap yesterday so have to end the discusstion in weird way....sorry

edit: fantasia is a compare so dont jump the gun

[Manuka]

Nice read. But really, can you blame SE for trying to make more money? They are a business after all, and thats what businesses do, maximize profit. By the same token, paying customers like you and me are naturally going to try get the most out of our money, because its in our nature as a paying customer. It's not nice too call people CHEAP because they are just trying the most out of their money, right? By the same token, it's not cool to call a company CROOKS because they are trying to maximize their profit. SE has already proven that they are willing to compromise with their customers (excellent by the way). Its only good business to pass the bone back to SE here and there as well.

The day customers stop implying SE as crooks for trying to maximize profit, is the day I stop implying customers are cheap for trying to get the most out of their money.

But really, when it comes down to it, people are just being cheap.

The part of my post that you quoted was probably lost on most, but it was actually a jab at those three transmog helms that were released on the WoW cashshop last year that created a ****storm in the community (one of my buddies who plays WoW mentioned that his guild leader was outright booting anybody caught wearing them as protest) which is a testament to what cashshop shenanigans can do to a community.

As to the rest of your post, there's a difference between being cheap and being taken advantage of. If we were cheap we wouldn't be paying them 13-15 bucks a month for the mere privilege of playing the game of which most of that sub is pure profit for them. Also I don't know what compromises SE has made that you're referring to, but I can't agree that we should 'pass the bone back' when they're already sitting on a stockpile of them from our subscription alone. I say this because I don't think people are really aware of how little of their subscription goes back into the game. Back when mmo's first began operational costs were pretty steep since the technology was young, which required subscriptions to keep them from going bankrupt. However today the cost of bandwidth is something like 7cents per GB (mmo's consume around 200-400 MB monthly) while the cost of data centers is pretty damn cheap as well, relatively speaking (I don't know the cost specifically for ffxiv but NCSofts' is like 250k for all of their mmos from Guildwars 2 to B&S). Doing some mental math if we were to highball a figure that includes operational cost and developmental costs, so lets say a live design team of 150 for an average income of 80k/y (not including expansions since we pay box price) with a sub base of 500k (14 per month, since there's two sub plans) you're sub covers somin like $14.50 a year or about $1.20 a month. So a little more than 91% of your sub is profit for them. Keep in mind that's being extremely generous because if SE's latest adds are to be believed, the sub base is more than double that plus most design teams are much much smaller.

Of course that isn't to say it's undeserved profit, the cost of entertainment is subjective to the individual. However you would hope the community would value themselves and their money a little more to hold SE to some standard of ethics by not introducing additional profit streams at the cost of in-game convenience, ala f2p style. The relationship between customer and company should be a tug-o-war between quality and cost, but one thing these companies have learned is that the gaming community at large are complete saps, which is why on-disc/day 1 DLC, pay2win and other cashgrab schemes are so rampant in modern gaming.

I dont see retainer service as cash shop, but if we see it from your and other ppl point of view then fantasia is also cash shop. So if you say no to retainer then it will be a no to Fantasia too, they both share the same boat
edit: fantasia is a compare so dont jump the gun

But those aren't really comparable though. Retainers you deal with on a frequent basis and are integral to the games' design. I haven't had a fantasia for months and even if I did it would just be sitting in my retainer wasting space.

[Shneibel]

But those aren't really comparable though. Retainers you deal with on a frequent basis and are integral to the games' design. I haven't had a fantasia for months and even if I did it would just be sitting in my retainer wasting space.

but it still micro transaction right ? I belive most of the post in here are against micro transaction since they are "payed customer in a p2p"

[Zwipe]

Actually P2P is a cheaper route, one would pay significantly more in a F2P due to impulse buying.
As of now they have not slowed down or hindered gameplay in an attempt to get us to buy something, so all of this is still just speculation. Even if all of the signs point to bait, it doesn't mean we have to bite. Knowing that additional storage is going to cost us, unnecessarily hoarding every item that you come across is trapping yourself in a corner so you have no choice to bite. Sad to say guys but its not 2003 any more...15 dollars doesn't go as far as it did 10 years ago, so they're going to try and get as much as then can, and I don't blame them. MMO's used to be playgrounds, but they've grown up into theme parks. Some good ones charge admission, some don't...but all exist with the intent to sell a good time at a premium.
Long story short: FFXIV charges for extra storage. If you don't want to pay for extra storage, then work with what you have. I'm out of tissues.

[Zwipe]

But those aren't really comparable though. Retainers you deal with on a frequent basis and are integral to the games' design. I haven't had a fantasia for months and even if I did it would just be sitting in my retainer wasting space.

As far as this thread goes and how cheap I think people are, you are the only one on the other side of my argument that is actually making sense...kudos to you.

[Doo]

As to the rest of your post, there's a difference between being cheap and being taken advantage of. If we were cheap we wouldn't be paying them 13-15 bucks a month for the mere privilege of playing the game of which most of that sub is pure profit for them.

I think most of it is just crazy fans that are willing to give away money to support a game they truly like. Like pretty much donating.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1962506

[KhalidTheGreat]

but it still micro transaction right ? I belive most of the post in here are against micro transaction since they are "payed customer in a p2p"

You're right.
I consider it a micro transaction and it shouldn't be payed for with anything other than gils.