Over-healing should not generate extra threat

[Mcshiggs]

Over healing should definitely cause threat, there are many reasons, but two that jump out at me are scholar with their shields, many times scholars will preheal for the shield to prep for a big hit, even if the target/targets are at full health, this would turn it into effective health via no threat. Secondly there are Hot's if you stack more than one heal over time effect, they stack, if the total tic heals the target and then some, who gets the threat for the amount healed, and who gets credit for the over heal, do you split it in half, do you have the game do a calculation and break it up into percentages based on who provided which portion of the tic?

[Hyrist]

It depends on the tank. Yes, a skilled and experience tank can deal with it usually. But if it's a new tank still learning the ropes (which is often the case when doing random duty finders) it can turn into a nightmare. It doesn't matter if I run with him or not. Besides, I always stay relatively near the tank anyways during most instances because I do like to use Holy. But you can't use holy when a half dozen mobs are beating the crap out of you.

The problem is regen creates an imbalanced amount of threat right at the start that many tanks struggle with. It's just a nuisance, and holds back the gameplay. It would be far better just to make a regen pulse that does 0 damage cause 0 threat.

- like they did in FFXI, I understand the idea. I'm just not in agreement.

Mainly because I don't mind being difficult on newer tanks. The extreme Primals are hell. They need to know how to deal with situations that can turn awkward or dire quickly, and a mage getting hate of a Regen Tick on DF trash mobs is a far safer environment to learn that sort of thing from.

Also, Holy on Quickcast does wonders on the whole "I've got six mobs on me and need to buy time." Bit. The stun length on holy is insane, and if the Tank cant get it off you in that time, yeah, sorry, but I'm pinning that blame solely on the tank then, not the game mechanics. I know you don't like to blame people who are learning, but nothing's wrong with making a misstep as a tank learning through hard Mode Dungeons.

But I understand your frustration. I just don't agree this time around that changing the mechanics is a solution to that.

Just to be curious, where are you encountering this problem the most? I run Scholar as my healer (Something about WHM/BLM rubs me the wrong way when it comes to Mages). So I'm uncertain which pulls in particular you're having trouble with.

And I also play a black mage. I don't play a paladin because that's what my friend plays. You may remember him. Called "Dest" for short. ^^

Ah, memories. Though, you guys should swap back and forth if he's ok switching roles. One of my joys in this game is being able to play multiple classes far easier than in FFXI, due to the lighter overall gearing requirement.

I split them on different characters, however, mainly for Roleplaying's sake. I just can't immerse myself into a character that can be highly proficient at multiple disciplines that really should be taking their life-dedication to master.

[Dale]

Over healing should definitely cause threat, there are many reasons, but two that jump out at me are scholar with their shields, many times scholars will preheal for the shield to prep for a big hit, even if the target/targets are at full health, this would turn it into effective health via no threat. Secondly there are Hot's if you stack more than one heal over time effect, they stack, if the total tic heals the target and then some, who gets the threat for the amount healed, and who gets credit for the over heal, do you split it in half, do you have the game do a calculation and break it up into percentages based on who provided which portion of the tic?

All other MMORPGs I have played worked like this. Heals that did 0 causes 0 threat. And it worked just fine.

I don't understand why so many in this thread think threat from over-healing is so important for a game to have.

[Dale]

- like they did in FFXI, I understand the idea. I'm just not in agreement.Mainly because I don't mind being difficult on newer tanks. The extreme Primals are hell. They need to know how to deal with situations that can turn awkward or dire quickly, and a mage getting hate of a Regen Tick on DF trash mobs is a far safer environment to learn that sort of thing from.

Also, Holy on Quickcast does wonders on the whole "I've got six mobs on me and need to buy time." Bit. The stun length on holy is insane, and if the Tank cant get it off you in that time, yeah, sorry, but I'm pinning that blame solely on the tank then, not the game mechanics. I know you don't like to blame people who are learning, but nothing's wrong with making a misstep as a tank learning through hard Mode Dungeons.

But I understand your frustration. I just don't agree this time around that changing the mechanics is a solution to that.

Just to be curious, where are you encountering this problem the most? I run Scholar as my healer (Something about WHM/BLM rubs me the wrong way when it comes to Mages). So I'm uncertain which pulls in particular you're having trouble with.

It's not any particular pull, and swift cast/sure cast are not always available and can't be relied on for such a frequent situation.

Blaming the tank does me no good if I am dead. Not to mention I have no desire to make his/her job more difficult. But I also refuse to neglect my abilities to accommodate what I consider to be poor game design. So until they fix this, I will continue to get the pulp beat out of me when ever a tank bites off more than they can chew.

It's fine we disagree. People often do.

[Kuponutz]

I don't know who thought this idea up on the SE development team, but it was a bad decision. Tanking and healing on this game is tricky enough - especially considering how so many people who play this game are in such a rush they demand the tank grab half the dungeon at a time.

Heals should only generate threat if they actually restore health.

Please change this.

Or, learn how to not overheal. Every MMO I've played has had a penalty of some kind for overhealing. If all you did was stand there spamming Cure III and asking for ballad where exactly would the challenge in your class lie?

[Dale]

Or, learn how to not overheal. ?

/sigh

I am actually looking forward to reaching my daily limit so I won't feel compelled to respond to posts like these.

This has nothing to do with learning how to heal or spamming cure 3. Please take a few minutes to read up on what I am talking about.

ANd the penalty for over-healing is wasting MP. That is sufficient. And I don't consider neglecting to use regen because it might steal hate from the tank when he starts the next pull as a form of challenge. I call it a form of stupid.

[Dale]

Ah, memories. Though, you guys should swap back and forth if he's ok switching roles. .

He's not ok with it

[Mcshiggs]

/sigh

I am actually looking forward to reaching my daily limit so I won't feel compelled to respond to posts like these.

This has nothing to do with learning how to heal or spamming cure 3. Please take a few minutes to read up on what I am talking about.

ANd the penalty for over-healing is wasting MP. That is sufficient. And I don't consider neglecting to use regen because it might steal hate from the tank when he starts the next pull as a form of challenge. I call it a form of stupid.

You are looking at this from only half of the healing side, level up scholar and play it, if overhealing meant no threat, they would have to redo scholar heals to where they only provided a shield for the amount actually healed, and this was create a balance issue with the healers. The reason things are the way they are is for balance, so yes, it does need to come down to either you getting better tanks, or you getting better at healing, or even better, both.

P.S. Like you I am also looking forward to you reaching your daily limit.

[Ehayte]

/sigh

I am actually looking forward to reaching my daily limit so I won't feel compelled to respond to posts like these.

This has nothing to do with learning how to heal or spamming cure 3. Please take a few minutes to read up on what I am talking about.

ANd the penalty for over-healing is wasting MP. That is sufficient. And I don't consider neglecting to use regen because it might steal hate from the tank when he starts the next pull as a form of challenge. I call it a form of stupid.

A. Cure III's potency is not an improvement from Cure II and it won't do you any good unless the whole group to stacked together. l2p
B. The poster you are responding to said "learn how to not overheal," not "learn how to heal." It is a legitimate suggestion. l2read
C. The MP penalty for overhealing is hardy sufficient, or logical. The only time it would actually have a meaningful penalty above normal MP usage would be on fights longer than, say, Garuda HM. I know there are quite a few, but the enmity penalty would also become a no-factor in those fights as well. Further, this is supposed to mimic how another intelligent or semi-intelligent life form would react to your actions. If you are healing someone so hard that the monster couldn't possibly hope to damage them significantly, they are going to try to kill you first. l2logic


/jerkmode off (don't quote that out of context). Sorry, but you are being obtuse and stubborn.

[Dale]

I read what you said. I also read you saying Over healing is unavoidable among other nonsense.

It is unavoidable. That's not nonsense.

You actually think you never land a heal that over-heals? U think all of your heals always perfectly match up with the amount of hp the target had missing? I know you don't really think that.