Honestly, let SE make as much money as they can.

[KhalidTheGreat]

extra retainers are for a slight increase in convenience and does not affect core gameplay, the examples you gave made it necessary to purchase cash shop item if you wish to have any hope completing content, the same obviously isn't true with retainers

those examples you gave made it that players 'need' to purchase them.
counterparts

Slight as it might be, it's still the of the same principle.

And the examples aren't necessary to purchase. You could actually keep going without them. But they make it more convenient the other way till you think "wth, i'll just buy the set and get done with it".

[ReiszRie]

Slight as it might be, it's still the of the same principle.

And the examples aren't necessary to purchase. You could actually keep going without them. But they make it more convenient the other way till you think "wth, i'll just buy the set and get done with it".

So, can i say that your argument against extra retainers are based off principles and not rationale?

those examples you've given are clearly items that falls under the category of need, to elaborate, its basically items that if you do not possess, makes a player suffer a major disadvantage or create immense inconvenience, they are punitive items, items designed to punish players for not having them.

extra retainers are certainly optional, I have 3 crafting classes and TBH, even if extra retainers are given free, I still have no use for them as my current retainers still have sufficient space, there are no "punishment" for not having extra retainers

[Razzle]

there are no "punishment" for not having extra retainers

This is keep being said. I think that if as a game dev, I opened a retainer service, and saw that it brings decent cash, I'd make sure to add more items to the game every update, and to require players to need more items, in order to convince them unknowingly to buy the retainer.

It's just how my marketing head would work at that situation, it just seem natural for me to do. Especially because no one will actually think the game changed that way for that reason. (unless they come from marketing branches)

[Ikeda]

If you had taken the entirety of my comment into thought, you'd have known it was merely a logical argument point out the logical fallacy that simply paying a monthly subscription means you are entitled to everything in the present and future for free.

Umm yes your monthly fee does guarantee access to all present and future content. That's how P2P mmos have always worked. They don't make new content out of "charity" they do it out of necessity to keep people subscribed because anyone with half a brain knows people would quickly leave if they run out of things to do. In this economy and with P2P player's general hatred of F2P practices if they get greedy and try to double dip their customers they'll lose those subscribers very quickly and will be forced to shut down or dumb down to F2P. Just like every single mmo except for WoW that has tried that for the past 9+ years. If you think the base content of 2.0 without updates is worth $10-15 a month I'm sorry to say there's no nice way to put this but you're a freaking fool.

Also before you freak out and call me "cheap" I think name change, character recreation/race change (fantasia), yearly or bi-yearly expansion packs, and server transfer are fine because those services have always been part of P2P even before F2P screwed up the genre. Retainers are pushing it a bit but I'm fine with it as long as it doesn't give some sort of crazy advantage of exclusive stuff from the Venture system. Any sort of cash shop though whether it's vanity, xp/gil boosters, mounts, or pets will lose them more subscribers than those rip off shops could ever make them.

[ReiszRie]

Umm yes your monthly fee does guarantee access to all present and future content. That's how P2P mmos have always worked. They don't make new content out of "charity" they do it out of necessity to keep people subscribed because anyone with half a brain knows people would quickly leave if they run out of things to do. In this economy and with P2P player's general hatred of F2P practices if they get greedy and try to double dip their customers they'll lose those subscribers very quickly and will be forced to shut down or dumb down to F2P. Just like every single mmo except for WoW that has tried that for the past 9+ years. If you think the base content of 2.0 without updates is worth $10-15 a month I'm sorry to say there's no nice way to put this but you're a freaking fool.

Also before you freak out and call me "cheap" I think name change, character recreation/race change (fantasia), yearly or bi-yearly expansion packs, and server transfer are fine because those services have always been part of P2P even before F2P screwed up the genre. Retainers are pushing it a bit but I'm fine with it as long as it doesn't give some sort of crazy advantage of exclusive stuff from the Venture system. Any sort of cash shop though whether it's vanity, xp/gil boosters, mounts, or pets will lose them more subscribers than those rip off shops could ever make them.

so in other words, if ppl against retainer service, they should against server transfer and Fantasia as well since they are all micro transaction. That mean if SE remove them all together and then everyone happy ?

Player ask for server transfer is micro transaction, no issue
Player ask for Fantasia is micro transaction, no issue
Player ask for Retainer service is micro transaction : BIG DEAL (had ask for this back since 1.0)

I dont see the sense in this complain

@Ikeda

If you cannot be bothered to read through the past few pages of comments to have a background of the arguments raised, I honestly could not be bothered to tango with you as I really ain't interested in explaining to you the same arguments I have explained a couple of times in this discussion.

Monthly subscription does not entitle you to all future features, it was never ever promised or guaranteed, it is merely the assumption made by yourself of how it should have worked and it has absolutely no relation to reality.

You pay a monthly subscription for Cable TV but that still doesn't guarantee you to every new feature, channels and what nots created in the future. You pay a monthly subscription for internet but it still doesn't entitle you to future features and new technologies implemented why are MMOs different? why are MMOs judged so harshly then?

Monthly subscription in a MMO does not magically confer you supreme rights.

[Ikeda]

@Ikeda

If you cannot be bothered to read through the past few pages of comments to have a background of the arguments raised, I honestly could not be bothered to tango with you as I really ain't interested in explaining to you the same arguments I have explained a couple of times in this discussion.

Monthly subscription does not entitle you to all future features, it was never ever promised or guaranteed, it is merely the assumption made by yourself of how it should have worked and it has absolutely no relation to reality.

You pay a monthly subscription for Cable TV but that still doesn't guarantee you to every new feature, channels and what nots created in the future. You pay a monthly subscription for internet but it still doesn't entitle you to future features and new technologies implemented why are MMOs different? why are MMOs judged so harshly then?

Monthly subscription in a MMO does not magically confer you supreme rights.

It has always worked that way and will continue to do so because the majority of players won't stand for it otherwise and are more than willing to take their money elsewhere. You can scream otherwise until you turn blue and it won't change that fact. The only reason WoW gets away with it is the sheer amount of subscribers it has and it's been bleeding hundreds of thousands to 1 million+ players each year for the past few years. Every single other mmo that has attempted the same thing has either shut down or gone F2P because they don't have enough subscribers to withstand the massive loss of subscribers that P2P cash shops ALWAYS cause and remain profitable. If you think FFXIV could survive losing a few hundred thousand subscribers due to a stupid decision like that when it currently only has about 500k-1 mill subscribers on top of what little faith people already have in SE as a company you're freaking delusional. All it will take is one little screw up and this game will go under. It's had 2 chances and will more than likely never get a 3rd. As for your cable and internet examples different businesses work differently. Get over it.