AOE Toggle Needs to GO

[Shyd]

lol You people speak as if the player community is going to allow you to not play inside the predetermined "Job" of your class. Do you not remember XI? It wont matter if you can use AOE on none mage jobs because you will be kicked out of your party if you even consider casting a spell as a melee within 3 months of these battle changes.

Whm/Thf? [Do you need it?]

[ZhangoSqu]

I made this post buried somewhere in the page 30s section, but this is one thing that I can see the developers going for that isn't about pushing an extra button or not [...]

I actually did read your post earlier Kiara It was well thought out. I do agree with the points that you made, but would like to point out that your analogy of firearms may not necessarily be appropriate. It depends on a few things--but and most importantly--if magic in Hydaelyn (and Eorzea specifically) is versatile (which it seems to be) the restriction of magic to single or multiple targets is not a result of how a spell functions but rather how it is used. Unlike with firearms whose area of effect (be it single or multiple) is a product of how they function.

Of course my argument for this is no less infallible. The point still being that a firearm analogy is good, but is only anecdotal at best.

I do agree that there are benefits that can be seen by the actions that they are taking--specifically mentioned by you and others, that this may allow the developers to create more unique play experiences based on the sort of spells and actions that are offered to the spell casting classes. But I still think that this could have been done without a removal of AoE toggle--and just a rework of the existing mechanic.

Now, I hope you're right that the battle team has some better ideas than just making some spells AoE and others not. I think that it is important for people to express their opinions on this, as we are, but since it looks like this is happening regardless, we'll have to wait and see what the new battle system is like before judging it. I know that I'm reserving final judgment until after the changes are made, and others should as well, but discourse is still important.

... All that being said--I'm still left feeling uneasy about this change without any further details that would better explain their plans.

[SeonFang]

I love the AoE toggle. Always works great for me unless I lag a little. I do not want to have two spells for each spell. I don't want to have to worry about Protect and Protectra or Fire and Firaga. I like it the way it is personally. Instead of a flurry of multiple bars here and there and so on I like just being able to hit one button. And if I want it off or on as long as I want I can just toggle it. I like the unique feel. I don't really want to play every other MMO out there.

[Kiara]

I actually did read your post earlier Kiara It was well thought out. I do agree with the points that you made, but would like to point out that your analogy of firearms may not necessarily be appropriate. It depends on a few things--but and most importantly--if magic in Hydaelyn (and Eorzea specifically) is versatile (which it seems to be) the restriction of magic to single or multiple targets is not a result of how a spell functions but rather how it is used. Unlike with firearms whose area of effect (be it single or multiple) is a product of how they function.

Of course my argument for this is no less infallible. The point still being that a firearm analogy is good, but is only anecdotal at best.

I do agree that there are benefits that can be seen by the actions that they are taking--specifically mentioned by you and others, that this may allow the developers to create more unique play experiences based on the sort of spells and actions that are offered to the spell casting classes. But I still think that this could have been done without a removal of AoE toggle--and just a rework of the existing mechanic.

Now, I hope you're right that the battle team has some better ideas than just making some spells AoE and others not. I think that it is important for people to express their opinions on this, as we are, but since it looks like this is happening regardless, we'll have to wait and see what the new battle system is like before judging it. I know that I'm reserving final judgment until after the changes are made, and others should as well, but discourse is still important.

... That and I'm still left feeling uneasy about this change without any further details that would better explain their plans.

Hi Zhango,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Oh definitely, it's one of those things that works, if it makes sense in the "lore" of the world of the particular game. If one can control the magical flow in Eorzea, then wouldn't allowing Red Lotus be toggleable be the same as well? I think it gives a nice freedom to every DoW class, but at the same time, we've gotten used to "Red Lotus" being a single target, and "Circle Slash" being an AOE. I'm fine with either system, but I can see why they may want to try it this way.

And a great point Zhango: Ultimately it would've been great for them to fully explain themselves about this. I feel that sometimes when we get a tiny bit of new information (via the forums), SE may sometimes be doing more harm than good. In this case, it might've been better to not say anything and unveil their full plans for Disciples of Magic (All Spell Changes, All Skill Changes, Job Specialization, the Focus of the Class), instead of just leaking this one bit of information.

Ultimately, we'll see where this goes (hopefully soon).

[Arcell]

You aren't able to change Red Lotus or Circle Slash because they are bound to and formed by a weapon. Mages work with the raw magic, Gladiators simply briefly enchant their blade with Red Lotus.

[TirionCrey]

God I'm sick of people talking about "unique" features in XIV being scrapped. An AoE toggle is nothing unique, its a not well thought through way of implementing spells. There can't be any balance for spells if the spell can be used as Single or AoE. Otherwise they would have to use algorhythms that will reduce effect of spells based on the amounf of targets hit. This is unneccesarry complicated BS. Give me Cure/Curaga, Sleep/Sleepga etc etc and everything is fine again.

This is a FF, even though its an MMO, and having Single Spells and AoE Spells(ending with either a number or a -ga) is part of FF! Stop pulling that stupid uniqueness BS card over and over.

[Arcell]

Except they're still going to have to do that with the I,II,II/-ra, -ga, -ja spells. You think they'll have the same MP cost, enmity generation and damage as their single target counterparts? Sorely mistaken. They'll have to do it either way, one just involves adding more icons to your bar.

[Tsuga]

God I'm sick of people talking about "unique" features in XIV being scrapped. An AoE toggle is nothing unique, its a not well thought through way of implementing spells. There can't be any balance for spells if the spell can be used as Single or AoE. Otherwise they would have to use algorhythms that will reduce effect of spells based on the amounf of targets hit. This is unneccesarry complicated BS. Give me Cure/Curaga, Sleep/Sleepga etc etc and everything is fine again.

This is a FF, even though its an MMO, and having Single Spells and AoE Spells(ending with either a number or a -ga) is part of FF! Stop pulling that stupid uniqueness BS card over and over.

False, the only FF that had -aga spells as exclusively AoE was XI. In the rest of the FFs that these suffixes were present -a and -aga were tiers, much like II, III, etc. are. The only exception is Tactics, which still didn't limit II and III tiers to single target. Fact.

You're bringing up Hate/MP consequences to AoE, which could be added to the current system while retaining toggle, and is pretty much off topic. Nobody is arguing against balancing hate/MP cost/damage spread, etc. Anyway, having -aga spells would be the same as what we currently have, only more limiting to our options as mages.

AoE Toggle is a unique feature of this game, and a streamlined way MECHANICALLY to toggle AoE.

[Kiara]

You aren't able to change Red Lotus or Circle Slash because they are bound to and formed by a weapon. Mages work with the raw magic, Gladiators simply briefly enchant their blade with Red Lotus.

Hi Arcell,

True, but what's to say in this world, that there's a particular set of enchanted Magic Words that cause a widespread Cone of Flame, and another set of enchanted Magic Words that produces a Single Flame Arrow (single target) attack?

Ultimately, it's suspension of disbelief and what you or I may believe how magic works in Eorzea.

Right now, the developers have chosen to re-examine magic and all spells in the game. We'll see where they go with it. It could be fine, or it could be very bad.

[SeonFang]

False, only FF had -aga spells as exclusively AoE was XI. In the rest of the FFs that these suffixes were present -a and -aga were tiers, much like II, III, etc. are. The only exception is Tactics, which still didn't limit II and III tiers to single target. Fact.

You're bringing up Hate/MP consequences to AoE, which could be added to the current system while retaining toggle, and is pretty much off topic. Nobody is arguing against balancing hate/MP cost/damage spread, etc. Anyway, having -aga spells would be the same as what we currently have, only more limiting to our options as mages.

AoE Toggle is a unique feature of this game, and a streamlined way MECHANICALLY to toggle AoE.

Agreed, thank you. Couldn't have said it better. Which also reminds me, the whole final fantasy concept aren't really supposed to be connected, all difference worlds and events through out the entire series (Minus a few continuations) with similiar spells. Final Fantasy is a set of stories and games, not a religion of what spells and so on, should be. Always room for advancement and uniqueness.
On top of that.. I would like to keep my aoe stoneskin and aoe shock spikes, they aren't going to be making stoneskin-aga or similar for shock spikes.