Stoneskin for Scholars, is it necessary?

[kayuwoody]

Swiftcast has its different uses. So nope, you can't compare Stoneskin with Swiftcast in terms of usefulness.

I think his point was both Swiftcast and Stoneskin are useful tools. It's not a case of why use Stoneskin, it's why not?

Sorry, but your example was too biased, and full of assumptions. I never had an experience wherein the other healer isn't always free, if that was the case, I think I have personal healing problem, due to the fact that we're supposed to carry each other's role.

Uhm. I can still cast Adloqium, no?

Nope, I said he's already shielded. There will be times when your tank's full and/or shielded, and you will be unable to contribute simply because you don't have stoneskin.

You're going to run into situations where the other healer is busy, and you're not, and if you don't have stoneskin you just have one less option you could have used to help the team. Of course I used extreme examples, as it's where it's usefulness is most obvious. In your average raid it'll make the run smoother, but won't literally save someone from dying every time you cast it. If it were that good it'd be horribly unbalanced.

Let's put it this way: compare you to another sch. Everything's the same, gear, skill, experience, except he has stoneskin and you don't. He's got more tools, and will have the advantage. Same argument I said to Gilcris below: you can literally just cast only psyhick adlo and lustrate for any content currently in the game and still clear it. You'd be making life harder for the other healer but it's still doable. The point really is: you have the tools, why not use them? If the answer is you can't be bothered to level cnj then the answer is you're just lazy. It's not a bad thing, this is still just a game we play for fun. If you don't want to get it, don't. But the fact remains, you've not got all your tools yet. By simple comparison, you're not as good as the sch who does.

Are either necessary? For most content, you can probably get by without... But with that said, the difference is that Swiftcast is a versatile ability that most people would consider "Must Have" and could turn the tide of any battle in which a person makes a mistake (or we make a mistake letting a faerie die), whereas SCH Stoneskin is an ability that will never mean the difference between success or failure.

Thought I'd try to address this too. The nature of "necessary" depends greatly on the group you're with. The most basic tools a healer has access to is sufficient to pass even the most difficult content if the group is efficient: No one's getting hit by avoidable damage, the tanks are using cooldowns at the right times.

It's when you're in a difficult encounter, either because the encounter is new to your group, or the group itself is new to you (hello PF DF), is when you want to be prepared for anything.

The example I quoted with Ifrit EX is a real use for stoneskin. During the third nail phase triple incinerates will occur, and the entire party is taking damage due to the nails blowing up. If stuff is going slightly badly, and your other healer is preoccupied with healing the team, your tank's already shielded.. you have no stoneskin to help reduce the damage your tank's about to take with the triple incinerate. Worse still if the tanks messed up the swap and he's got stacks already. Is it "necessary" then? I would argue yes. Is it an extreme example? Yes, but I've personally gone through this, and I could see it happening quite easily again.
Tank dying at that point can quite easily be the difference between success or failure.

[Thorauku]

I think his point was both Swiftcast and Stoneskin are useful tools. It's not a case of why use Stoneskin, it's why not?

Why not you ask, because there are certain fights in which you just can't / won't be able to cast it. I've already said, you just simply can't cast Adloqium and Stoneskin to catch a spike damaging skill. (i.e Death Sentence, Rotoswipe, Mountain Buster), in which case you need to make a choice, Adloqium or Stoneskin? I guess we all know which skill will be used in this case.

Nope, I said he's already shielded. There will be times when your tank's full and/or shielded, and you will be unable to contribute simply because you don't have stoneskin.

I'm sorry? I can't recall any endgame content where Adloqium lasted for more than 3s. In which case you can just simply recast it instead of using a gimped Stoneskin. And hey, Adloqium heals. It's only probably useful during Transition phase, but then again, you're better off using Succor, as the transition phase usually lasts for like 3-5s.

Plus, what's the WHM doing during Transition phase?

Let's put it this way: compare you to another sch. Everything's the same, gear, skill, experience, except he has stoneskin and you don't. He's got more tools, and will have the advantage. Same argument I said to Gilcris below: you can literally just cast only psyhick adlo and lustrate for any content currently in the game and still clear it. You'd be making life harder for the other healer but it's still doable. The point really is: you have the tools, why not use them? If the answer is you can't be bothered to level cnj then the answer is you're just lazy. It's not a bad thing, this is still just a game we play for fun. If you don't want to get it, don't. But the fact remains, you've not got all your tools yet. By simple comparison, you're not as good as the sch who does.

Except the scholar can't simply cast Stoneskin to mitigate spike damaging skills when he needs it. And that's the real point of using it anyway. So what's the point? I'm talking more about endgame stuffs here as the low-tier dungeons is just a faceroll anyway.

PS:
I know my answer was too biased, but I just can't simply understand the point of using it when you can simply pre-made (WHM + SCH, which is actually better most of the time) almost every endgame content the game has to offer.

While I admit that it has its uses, it just simply can't hold its ground to be called "necesarry" (IMO), hence this thread existed.

[kayuwoody]

snip

Your entire response keeps ignoring that simple fact that you may be in a party with no one else able to cast a WHM traited 18% stoneskin. In which case yours is as good as anyone else's, so if you're the one who's got a free GCD, or the other SCH has already started casting adlo..

There will be instances where you will have time to get both adlo and stoneskin up, especially if adlo crits so the shield lasts a bit longer. I've already quoted Ifrit EX twice and specified an exact point in time (when he does Searing). It's also potentially a very pivotal time to have mitigation up on the tank depending on the situation.

Objectively speaking, nothing is "necessary". You don't even need Swiftcast if your entire team's playing well. It just becomes another "nice to have" button. As I keep saying you don't need to cast a lot of spells, but why wouldn't you if you could and the situation called for it?

[Sanguisio]

Depends, are you going to be raiding with a WHM ?then not really. going to be solo healing much end game content ? Yes

[Thorauku]

Your entire response keeps ignoring that simple fact that you may be in a party with no one else able to cast a WHM traited 18% stoneskin. In which case yours is as good as anyone else's, so if you're the one who's got a free GCD, or the other SCH has already started casting adlo..

And you also ignored the fact that you can pre-made every endgame content available in this game. So nope, a SCH + SCH possibility can be pretty much prevented / ignored.

Objectively speaking, nothing is "necessary". You don't even need Swiftcast if your entire team's playing well. It just becomes another "nice to have" button. As I keep saying you don't need to cast a lot of spells, but why wouldn't you if you could and the situation called for it?

You can't simply compare Swiftcast with Stoneskin when it comes to being "necessary", Swiftcast has alot of uses and not only can be used in Resurrecting, so the entire team's playstyle isn't relevant in this case, while Stoneskin only have one and only use, it's to mitigate an incoming damage, but you also have Adloqium in which should be prioritized over a gimped Stoneskin.

While having another mitigation skill is nice, a WHM can do it much better, and should be the one doing it.

[Reyno]

Why do people ask for opinions and advice, then argue everyone with actual experience that posts their answer as if they know better? Why did you even ask if you were so sure to begin with?

Look, stoneskin is not necessary. It is not necessary in any situation or by any means. But it is HELPFUL. It is USEFUL. You will be VERY glad that you have it if you get it. And your teammates will be glad as well. You don't need it immediately, take some time and level WHM slowly. That's what I did, just a little bit day by day and once you get there you're finished and good to go!

Your answer is that it's not necessary, but you should work toward it anyhow. There will be a difference whether you're willing to believe it are not and I believe you may be underestimating the situations where it can come in quite handy. If you choose not to anyway, then whatever. That's all there is. There's not much of a discussion beyond that.

EDIT: Also, just a little addendum. While stoneskin isn't necessary if you just want to get the job done. It IS necessary if you want to be the absolute best healer you can be. And that's a fact. =)

[Citizen_Thom]

Swiftcast + Stoneskin is vital in my opinion to playing SCH. It's how a SCH keeps up with WHM's Cure III's in those 'oh expletive' moments. Adloquim --> Swiftcast + Stoneskin --> Replacement Adloquim --> Physic times two or three before the Stoneskin wears off.

My experience is that Adloquim will absorb damage before Stoneskin takes damage, Adloquim + Stoneskin is usually enough buffer to allow you to bring the Tank to full if you are out of Aetherflow charges for Lustrate (level 50).

[AniCelestine]

The few times I bother to use stoneskin is against tonberry king (cause of Daily Roulette), it's just pain in ass if dps just kills all the tonberries and you end up wwith 5/6 stacks and tank is barely ilvl 60, aldo -> swiftcast stoneskin -> aldo -> lustrate when the big hit is over. And then you just hope dps kills the tonberry before more "Everybody's Grudge" or what the name of the skill was.

[Silkerin]

i usually use it on 8man stuff when the white mage is lazy as hell to actually use his...

also on 4 man dungeons it allows me to dps more without worrying much... just a stone skin and adloquium on tank allows me to dps most of the fight without geting out of cleric stance, with just the fairy healing.

also on 4man dungeons, it allows for the dps to make some mistakes without you needing to heal them right away

but thats just me

[Artemiz]

also on 4 man dungeons it allows me to dps more without worrying much... just a stone skin and adloquium on tank allows me to dps most of the fight without geting out of cleric stance, with just the fairy healing.

also on 4man dungeons, it allows for the dps to make some mistakes without you needing to heal them right away

but thats just me

As a new SCH I'm learning tactics and tips all the time, Aldo + Stoneskin between pulls is great, it gives me time to place Eos/Selene and get my DoT's out and Baned before I really need to worry too much about healing, really useful