Lancer : New Job Tank

[Nicodareus]

Since we have a mage tank thread and evasion with monk. Figured I would start one around riposte as a core mechanic. Seeing how Flurry (parry) is a core skill of lancer seemed like a good place to start. We can use Gladiator as the third class because let's face it, provoke is too much a part of things atm. Not sure what we can use as the secondary or lvl 15 class.

The Job would excel in physical defensive tanking while being weak to magic based attacks as a counter balance. This already fits into the Lancer theme with their armor.

Thoughts?

Cross Class - Provoke, Flash, Convalescence, ? , ?

Lvl 30 - Strength of the Mountain - "Lancer" gains a 10% HP increase and has pdef increased by 30%. All attacks now have a 1.5 threat Modifier. Toggle effect like defiance.

Lvl 35 - Riposte - 50% chance on successful parry to counter attack the attacker with potency 100 attack, threat modifier x3


Lvl 40 - Sight beyond Sight - Duration 10 seconds. Allows the "lancer" to parry attacks with a 50% effect (think current parry is only 24%ish? Clarification please). Cool down 60 seconds.

Lvl 45 - Arcane Lance - 1 attack. Cool down 3min. "Lancer" is able to mitigate a magical attack as if it was a physical attack.

Lvl 50 - Byakugan - For 6 seconds is able to parry and riposte every attack made against the "lancer" with potency 125 attacks that are threat x5 attacks. Cooldown 90 seconds (since the mitigation isn't like HG shorter cool down but longer then a minute because it does deal damage back and on ae pulls/encounters would be very deadly for threat and clearing)

Honestly kinda slapped together but let's build it up shall we?

[Mhaeric]

I see a Templar being the second job of the Lancer. A holy knight integrating a mix of both offensive and defensive quasi-magic abilities into tanking role. Abilities could include things like Astra (nullifies next status effect) and Rasp (Damages target's MP and silences them) as well as attacks like Break (Reduces target's attack and defence) or Lifebreak (Damage and reduce target's Max HP causing something similar to Antibody for Virus when it wears off so that it can't be spammed.) There would also be abilities tied to parrying such as Bonecrusher (Heavy damage, but only after parrying an attack) or Fending Strikes (large parry buff that automatically damages any target that you parry.)

I haven't thought it through as much as you in terms of actual abilities, but I think the concept of a holy warrior fits well with the concepts behind the Ishgardian Holy See.

[Kitru]

The Job would excel in physical defensive tanking while being weak to magic based attacks as a counter balance.

This would make it a tank that you only bring around for fights with no magical damage, and, assuming you mean it to be a tank that has superior survivability against physical damage, for those fights with a lot of physical damage, it's the only tank you would want to bring. Tanks should have similar survivability in all circumstances and making one tank basically have a lethal allergy to magic damage is bad design.

As to the abilities themselves, Strength of the Mountain is a painfully weak tank stance. Assuming you put them into tank armor so they've got VIT stacked, 10% +hp leaves them with 88% of the eHP of the other tanks and the 30% increase pdef wouldn't bridge the gap, nor would it provide anywhere near the same mean mitigation contributions as the other tank stances (you're basically talking about having something marginally stronger than Foresight up at all times; PLD is basically Rampart and WAR is Convalescence; think about that); also, you'd be having a tank that deals as much damage as a full on DPS since the tank stance has no debuff. You've writtin Riposte as a trait, as opposed to an ability, and, if it were an ability, it would definitely need to proc off of getting a parry; if it's off GCD, it should have a CD of something like 8-10 seconds. Sight Beyond Sight is just a 25% increase in parry value (it varies based upon STR). Arcane Lance is a next to worthless CD because it's a single attack mitigated the same level that every other tank already does every minute. Byakugen isn't incredibly mediocre since 6 seconds is a whopping 2-3 attacks and guaranteeing a parry is what Keen Flurry already effectively does for Lancers (WAR and PLD have about a 30-40% parry chance atm; Keen Flurry is +80%) so it's not even really effective mitigation CD (guaranteeing a parry is basically a 20% reduction in damage taken for the duration since you already have an existing parry chance).

I honestly have to wonder why you seem to think retributive damage with high enmity modifiers is so required. The devs have already said that they can add or remove high enmity modifiers from attacks when a class swaps to or from tank job; the same is almost definitely true of the positional requirements on the attacks (else a LNC tank would have a more boring rotation than PLD because it would be Full Thrust combo and Phlebotomize). It doesn't really serve a purpose.

[Dotsusama]

I approve of a Lancer-based tank if only because it might make some use of the heavier mail armor and light plate sets that I kept seeing while leveling up.

(Seriously, what were the item folks thinking with that stuff?)

[Ultimatecalibur]

The Job would excel in physical defensive tanking while being weak to magic based attacks as a counter balance. This already fits into the Lancer theme with their armor.

Lancers have access to a fair number of tank level def=mdef armors. In fact you can level from 23 to 50 exclusively in crafted def=mdef armors, starting with Iron Scale Mail (23), Steel Scale Mail (32), Horn Scale Mail (38), Tortoiseshell Scale Mail (46) and finally Mosshorn Scale Mail (47, ilevel 50).

[Maku]

Looks cool but I would use Sharingan instead of Byakugan because the Byakugan lets you see through things and stuff but the Sharingan is what helps you track and counter and read your opponents moves.

[Alistaire]

Lancers have access to a fair number of tank level def=mdef armors. In fact you can level from 23 to 50 exclusively in crafted def=mdef armors, starting with Iron Scale Mail (23), Steel Scale Mail (32), Horn Scale Mail (38), Tortoiseshell Scale Mail (46) and finally Mosshorn Scale Mail (47, ilevel 50).

Also certain dungeon drops like Paladin's trousers from Cutter's Cry.

[Nicodareus]

First - said it was slapped together so how about instead of just being destructive why not actually make suggestions?

Yes I left numbers intentionally weak as a baseline.

Not once in an mmo (spanning 17 years) has having a specialty tank negated others unless it was broken like NIN. IMO having a strength vs one def while being weak to another wouldn't negate Pal or War at all. Versatile vs specialist. Specially as stated you keep it within reason.

The riposte attacks at 100/125 potency is weak. Its combo starter DMG not finisher so the threat modifiers aren't as out of line. Also with baseline 1.5 threat vs 1 of a DPS it is a way to use the job mechanic as threat builder.

Yes screwed up Riposte as it is more trait then skill.


As for lvl 45 Arcane Lance thought was to allow the job something so it wouldn't be useless outside of exceptional magic heavy fights and allow light to moderate magic fights a chance. Again without exclusion.

Your also right the HP is low, but rather start low and tweak then suggest overpowered crap like I usually see.

So suggestions or just be negative?

[Nicodareus]

Lancers have access to a fair number of tank level def=mdef armors. In fact you can level from 23 to 50 exclusively in crafted def=mdef armors, starting with Iron Scale Mail (23), Steel Scale Mail (32), Horn Scale Mail (38), Tortoiseshell Scale Mail (46) and finally Mosshorn Scale Mail (47, ilevel 50).

As mine is only 34 hadn't noticed but stand corrected.

[Nicodareus]

Looks cool but I would use Sharingan instead of Byakugan because the Byakugan lets you see through things and stuff but the Sharingan is what helps you track and counter and read your opponents moves.

Maybe I'm remembering wrong was going forHyuga perfect / 360 defense skill not vision skill per say lol