Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

[NoctisUmbra]

for people who played ffxi, they used the term capped, as in it will cap your level upon entering.


The problem is just by being able to do it higher level people will ruin other peoples experience of doing the dunegon, people will naturally only want to do something when its easy. the only way to have a challenge is to make it a challenge. its simple really, it cant be a challenge if the rules arent challenging. letting in people 25 levels higher than the target audience, cannot be challenging.

You can say whatever you want about choice, by and large no one will allow you the choice, when failure and loss are on the line.
right now we can set difficulty of leves to 5 stars, but if i tried to make a random party, and tell them hey i want to put it on 5 stars, its 25 levels higher than us, is that ok? people would laugh in my face and leave the party.
people will not do something more difficult than they need to for no reward.

no matter what SE says about reccomended level, if they do not incentize or limit player behavior, it is totally irrelevant. By not adding a cap they are telling vedis and dirtimonkey that they can and should steam roll the content, because if we didnt want you to, we wouldnt have let you, or at very least rewarded people who did not steam roll it.

not putting some sort of level syncing in this dungeon would go totally against the whole battle reform plan.

First off, I appreciate you clarifying that for me as I did not play FFXI. I realize that this misunderstanding could have been bait for lots of trolling/flaming, so I appreciate the well-mannered response.

If you mean capping by that definition, than yes I am for it.

I would have to retract my previous posts then, since they were aimed at my original understanding of the term. This basically means that most of this thread consists of an argument spawned by misunderstanding rather than an actual debate. Those are always fun lol.

[VydarrTyr]

I honestly can't believe this is even a debate. There are pretty much no drawbacks to scaling with the dungeon.

I disagree. I can think of several problems to level-synching.

First (and in my opinion most importantly), it would take a significant amount of time to develop, code, test, and implement a level-synching system in FFXIV. I'd prefer that we get content now. If they want to implement level synch, they can do it later. For now, I'd prefer to have more stuff to do in the game. Please, pretty please don't make me wait 3 more months for two dungeons.

Second, you're forcing everyone to play the game the way that you find most enjoyable. You're obviously a hard core player. I definitely wasn't the first anything on my server. (Congrats, by the way ) So you obviously enjoy challenges. And while I'm like you in the sense that I enjoy a challenge, there are lots of folks who play the game much more casually. They don't want to spend the time figuring out the minutiae of their class, and finding the best players to party with. I have no problems with casual players going through the dungeons on r50s if that makes the game more enjoyable for them. I'd just prefer that they stay in the game.

Third, I'll have to buy and start carrying around two sets of gear and armor for each class I have over level 30. That will make my inventory management problems worse.

Fourth, my macros will be useless. For every class over 30, I'll have to go through and set up an entirely new set of r30 macros. Considering I'm already forced to set up 3 sets of WS macros for every class, plus another macro set for armor, ... well, that's a headache I'd prefer to avoid.

I'm sure there are other issues, but I've droned on long enough. My point is simply that it's not a cut and dry issue. There are definite problems with level-synching, too.

[ClashBlades]

I disagree. I can think of several problems to level-synching.

First (and in my opinion most importantly), it would take a significant amount of time to develop, code, test, and implement a level-synching system in FFXIV. I'd prefer that we get content now. If they want to implement level synch, they can do it later. For now, I'd prefer to have more stuff to do in the game. Please, pretty please don't make me wait 3 more months for two dungeons.

Second, you're forcing everyone to play the game the way that you find most enjoyable. You're obviously a hard core player. I definitely wasn't the first anything on my server. (Congrats, by the way ) So you obviously enjoy challenges. And while I'm like you in the sense that I enjoy a challenge, there are lots of folks who play the game much more casually. They don't want to spend the time figuring out the minutiae of their class, and finding the best players to party with. I have no problems with casual players going through the dungeons on r50s if that makes the game more enjoyable for them. I'd just prefer that they stay in the game.

Third, I'll have to buy and start carrying around two sets of gear and armor for each class I have over level 30. That will make my inventory management problems worse.

Fourth, my macros will be useless. For every class over 30, I'll have to go through and set up an entirely new set of r30 macros. Considering I'm already forced to set up 3 sets of WS macros for every class, plus another macro set for armor, ... well, that's a headache I'd prefer to avoid.

I'm sure there are other issues, but I've droned on long enough. My point is simply that it's not a cut and dry issue. There are definite problems with level-synching, too.

First: Well none of this is going to happen by the release of the dungeons so my understanding was the eventual implementation of level synching to the dungeon. Obviously it would not happen right away as they need to take care of several other things.

Second:Yes I enjoy playing hardcore, but are you honestly saying casuals would enjoy skipping everything in the dungeon except the boss? I doubt casuals would enjoy that, but if I'm wrong then my apologies.

Third: What if gear scaled and you were not required to carry around different gear sets?

Fourth This one may be a valid point, but I cannot agree with it nor can I dispute it. We have no clue the changes that are in store for us, so we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

[Corrderio]

I'm more concerned about it requiring 4 or 8 people to enter the dungeon.

[VydarrTyr]

First: Well none of this is going to happen by the release of the dungeons so my understanding was the eventual implementation of level synching to the dungeon. Obviously it would not happen right away as they need to take care of several other things.

Totally fair. I've said elsewhere that I wouldn't have too much of a problem if they implemented it later. I'd still prefer that they leave it up to the player and make it an option, but I wouldn't be too bothered if they did level-synch later on.

Second:Yes I enjoy playing hardcore, but are you honestly saying casuals would enjoy skipping everything in the dungeon except the boss? I doubt casuals would enjoy that, but if I'm wrong then my apologies.

Honestly, I hadn't thought that this would be an issue. I had imagined that since it's instanced content, the mobs would aggro regardless of your rank. If it's not, I think that's a design flaw that would need to be fixed. So I agree with you here.

Third: What if gear scaled and you were not required to carry around different gear sets?

That's an interesting question. It would certainly get rid of that concern. The only question would be what the effects of the scaling are. Would you get 60% of the benefit of r50 gear? And if so, would that be better than using r30 gear? (But I guess I'm thinking about min-maxing my job, which is probably more in depth than we need to go. )

Yeah, I think this would probably solve that issue. But it would be kind of a big deal, since I thought they were going the other way with it, and were going to start making class/rank exclusive gear, instead of making things scale.

Fourth This one may be a valid point, but I cannot agree with it nor can I dispute it. We have no clue the changes that are in store for us, so we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Yeah, this is probably not a huge concern. It would be a headache, but just a headache. And like you said, it may even be resolved by the changes that are coming.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

I am glad they made it the way they did personally.

[ClashBlades]

The only question would be what the effects of the scaling are. Would you get 60% of the benefit of r50 gear? And if so, would that be better than using r30 gear? (But I guess I'm thinking about min-maxing my job, which is probably more in depth than we need to go. )

Yeah, I think this would probably solve that issue. But it would be kind of a big deal, since I thought they were going the other way with it, and were going to start making class/rank exclusive gear, instead of making things scale.


Yeah, this is probably not a huge concern. It would be a headache, but just a headache. And like you said, it may even be resolved by the changes that are coming.

Well, technically gear already scales. If you are level 30 and you put on lvl 50 gear you get far less than a level 50 would.

[Vanguard319]

So now they're whining about the dungeons huh? Sounds like they were denied thier afternoon nap and pacifier.

[Punxsutawney]

Capped dungeons, no thanks. Capping instances is just a halfassed way of saying "hey this event is too easy, so well put a level cap on it to make it annoying."

[Ark_mage2]

I apologize for not reading through the entire thread, but the argument seems silly. The whole point of having levels is so that players can become more powerful and better able to defeat "weaker" enemies and challenges as they progress. No one is calling for all Quests or eves to scale to level, but that is the logical extension of the argument that is being made. If content always scaled to the level of the player, then there would be no purpose in even having experience based progression. There has to be easier challenges for their to be harder ones. A player that levels with a group of friends from the beginning and first confronts the lv30 dungeon with his friends will be genuinely challenged as long as he wants to be. As he and his friends progress and go back to the dungeon 10 or 20 levels later they will be able to feel how they have progressed. That kind of meaningful progression is what makes a role playing game distinct in the first place.