AOE Toggle Needs to GO

[Arcell]

- AOE Toggle removes any sense of decision making from support classes, healing has always been a game of making decisions. The better decisions you make, the better healer you are. This encompasses MP efficiency and just flat out decision making.

Except not really. If they simply add in AoE versions of heals it would end up the same way. The only difference is the extra button press is on your bar instead of after selecting your skill. MP efficiency isn't part of this thread and isn't something mutually exclusive from the toggle we have. They could easily change MP costs for AoE and single-target with the current system.

- AOE Toggle is an extra button press for a role that needs to react quickly, and cast quickly to keep his or her party alive. When you throw in an extra button press for AOE your reaction time gets bottlenecked by factors it shouldn't be, such as UI lag.

Again the only difference between toggle and -aga spells is that the extra button press(es) are on your bar instead of one after selecting the spell. Also all monsters in this game have a decent delay after most every attack. This isn't an action game where you're constantly being attacked and can get combo locked. The pace of this game isn't THAT fast that pressing a SINGLE button would ruin everything.

- By giving every caster in the game the ability to AOE, you remove the possibility of some potential jobs, such as Scholar or Bard.

Except they could give them unique spells and abilities instead of AoE versions of those we already have.

- The controls for this game are already convoluted, things need to be minimized a lot, if they can provide us with a better way of AOEing (which I believe they can), then they should.

This could easily be alleviated by simply explaining it. The controls aren't that complicated, especially for someone who's ever played a video game or MMO before in their life.

- AOE Toggle gives us an artificial sense of skill. It takes extra effort to deal with unresponsive UI/extra button presses to achieve an "OK" result.

Again, there's almost no difference between toggle and -aga spells aside from the location of the additional button presses.

[Zuellni]

Another step towards FFXI v1.5 congratulations guys. >.>

[CookieMonster]

OP you've got to be kidding! You are kidding right?! This is the most rediculous request I've read yet. Just learn when you can or cannot aoe. Removing the option for aoe is a stupid idea.

I agree. Maybe SE will add in toggle JUMP function too.

[Tsuga]

Another step towards FFXI v1.5 congratulations guys. >.>

Except worse, with the limits of the current action bar.

way2fail, OP.

[Jennestia]

yay another thing that the development team is screwing up. great job. please please give us tanaka back.

Tanaka's original direction is why the game is in the mess it is now. He's not a bad developer, but his decision to ignore even the basics cost this game big.

+1. This messing needs to stop. If the battle team can only deal with FFXI battle system, then go work there and leave the spot for some open minded battle team that can try and understand this game's current system.
.

You're basically telling them to drop support for FFXIV and focus on their other more successful MMORPG.

[Lionix]

There are plenty of reasons the toggle should be removed.

Reasons why it should be removed:

- AOE Toggle removes any sense of decision making from support classes, healing has always been a game of making decisions. The better decisions you make, the better healer you are. This encompasses MP efficiency and just flat out decision making.

Adjusting toggle would NOT be rocket science, it could simply increase MP cost, increase cast time, lower potency. Exactly the same effect as just clicking a "Curaga" button rather than "Cure". I don't see the need to remove here.

- AOE Toggle is an extra button press for a role that needs to react quickly, and cast quickly to keep his or her party alive. When you throw in an extra button press for AOE your reaction time gets bottlenecked by factors it shouldn't be, such as UI lag.

You are not forced to RE-decide on the "AoE" after every cast, it remembers your last stance, meaning if Toggle stays, you can simply "not toggle", if it leaves, you have to move your cursor to wherever the -Ga is, that is a minimum of one button press, exactly as many as having to hit toggle, IF you were to need it. I don't see the need to remove for here either.

- By giving every caster in the game the ability to AOE, you remove the possibility of some potential jobs, such as Scholar or Bard.

We might have to agree to disagree here, I don't think being able to AoE makes a class. Same spells, on bigger range doesn't seem like key features to me. What truly made Scholar interesting was all the other boosts... And being a mix of both schools too. For Bard, I believe it was the fact it BUFFED stats nobody else could, among other things. But like I said, probably an "Agree to Disagree" situation.

- The controls for this game are already convoluted, things need to be minimized a lot, if they can provide us with a better way of AOEing (which I believe they can), then they should.

How can a very single button press get better? Activating a stance? That implies running up to the skill slot and using, possible cooldowns, and going back and forth to activate/deactivate. I can't imagine a better way to go about it.

- AOE Toggle gives us an artificial sense of skill. It takes extra effort to deal with unresponsive UI/extra button presses to achieve an "OK" result.

As explained before, I don't see how a fixed toggle is in any way inferior (hell, or equal) to having -Ga's, so I don't see the need to remove here, yet again.

Reasons why you would want to keep it:

- It's nice to be able to AOE anything, I don't think anyone would argue that. It's nice to be able to just equip one spell and with a single button press toggle between AOE and no AOE.

Hardly, if anything it should be depending on the spells, some might be just too OP if AoE'd. Kinda kills the class-crossing too.

In addition, a lot of people are making arguments under the assumption that we will always play with the current battle system and monsters. A lot of changes to combat will come with 1.18, as well as two new dungeons and who knows how important AOE will or will not be. Under the current claim system (I'm aware they are looking into altering it) you cannot claim several monsters and receive exp from all of them anyways, so AOE has limited use in the current game.

What I want to add here is that I DO hope it's important, I was promised "Many Vs Many" scenarios. Probably my mistake thinking it would be often, though. Either way, that would certainly make AoE important.

In addition, the only thing they stated is being removed is the toggle. Even if the ability to AOE is removed with the toggle, try to think about what kind of options this could open up for the dev team. They could make AOE job specific, or give us a materia that augments "Magic: AOE" or something. Just because the toggle is being removed doesn't mean they are scrapping the concept entirely.

Again, rather than scrapping, I'd rather see improving. Like Materias that do "AoE: Increase potency", "AoE: Reduce Cost", "AoE: Reduce Casting" and such.


How the hell did I walled again?!

[Rowyne]

There are plenty of reasons the toggle should be removed.

Reasons why it should be removed:

- AOE Toggle removes any sense of decision making from support classes, healing has always been a game of making decisions. The better decisions you make, the better healer you are. This encompasses MP efficiency and just flat out decision making.

- AOE Toggle is an extra button press for a role that needs to react quickly, and cast quickly to keep his or her party alive. When you throw in an extra button press for AOE your reaction time gets bottlenecked by factors it shouldn't be, such as UI lag.

- By giving every caster in the game the ability to AOE, you remove the possibility of some potential jobs, such as Scholar or Bard.

- The controls for this game are already convoluted, things need to be minimized a lot, if they can provide us with a better way of AOEing (which I believe they can), then they should.

- AOE Toggle gives us an artificial sense of skill. It takes extra effort to deal with unresponsive UI/extra button presses to achieve an "OK" result.

Reasons why you would want to keep it:

- It's nice to be able to AOE anything, I don't think anyone would argue that. It's nice to be able to just equip one spell and with a single button press toggle between AOE and no AOE.

- The fact that you can AOE is a major unique difference between THM and CON. The major difference between these two classes is held by the fact that they have different AOE mechanics (THM being a cone, CON being a radius). So if it were removed, what's the incentive to be one or the other? (Battle Reform may address this, we don't know yet)

- Assuming the battle reform makes nukes useful, CON may suffer from action bar issues. If a dungeon requires AOE and has a variety of different enemies with different resists, how reasonable would it be to ask people to change their bar every other pack of monsters? Not very reasonable. (Judgement should be reserved until 1.18, it's probably safe to assume they won't make AOE important in dungeons if they plan to remove the toggle)

Other thoughts:

I am for the removal of the toggle, mostly for the reasons I stated; however, I try not to completely disregard the opposition. There are valid reasons for both sides of the argument, but in my personal opinion, removal is the better of the two.

In addition, a lot of people are making arguments under the assumption that we will always play with the current battle system and monsters. A lot of changes to combat will come with 1.18, as well as two new dungeons and who knows how important AOE will or will not be. Under the current claim system (I'm aware they are looking into altering it) you cannot claim several monsters and receive exp from all of them anyways, so AOE has limited use in the current game.

In addition, the only thing they stated is being removed is the toggle. Even if the ability to AOE is removed with the toggle, try to think about what kind of options this could open up for the dev team. They could make AOE job specific, or give us a materia that augments "Magic: AOE" or something. Just because the toggle is being removed doesn't mean they are scrapping the concept entirely.

Well said, and brings up additional points.

[Frisque]

I'm against taking out the toggle.

Unless SE has some wicked awesome plan in place besides "-aga" that will blow everybody's mind. (doubtful)

[Tsuga]

I'm against taking out the toggle.

Unless SE has some wicked awesome plan in place besides "-aga" that will blow everybody's mind. (doubtful)

The only thing I can think is that they're removing AoE all together. I don't think SE is stupid enough to copy paste the entire spell catalog, again. At least not with this current battle/class system.

Also, HI FRISQUE!

[Rentahamster]

I may be reading too much into this, but I interpret "we will remove the AOE toggle" to mean, "We will remove the AOE toggle and replace it with an interface that is much more intuitive and easy to use than the current implementation".

Not, "we are going to put -ga spells back into the game"