Top DPS in you t5 clearing groups?

[EasymodeX]

T5 and T4 are far too variable in terms of methodology and RNG for most DPS results to have any meaning beyond "you didn't suck".


T1 Cad parses are skewed moderately in favor of Summoners and Bards due to multi-dotting for half the fight. It's not unusual for top-end SMNs to exceed 380, probably hit 400. MNKs should ready 380 or higher. On my DRG my friend says I parse up to 370 on Cad with most runs at 360-365. Personally, I just want some of longnu's crit% luck. A 44% crit rate on my autos would go a long way towards an epic parse. With multi-dots, Bards can actually hit some pretty high numbers. IIRC they've parsed up to 360 or so.

T2 depends a bit on methodology, and also whether you're parsing the full gauntlet or just the ADSboss. That on top of other variables tends to make people ignore the fight for parses ... unless they're doing the enrage strat. If they're doing that, then their group competency is probably not at the level where their individual skill would put out meaningful numbers.


The main issue with T4 is the extreme skew towards SMNs and BRDs for the clockwork multi-target non-AOE phases, versus the heavy skew towards BLMs and DRGs for the AOE phases. The AOE phases themselves are problematic because a second player's AOE DPS will eat away from the first player's. As a general example, the highest SMN parse I've heard about for T4 was in a group where they (and another SMN) were the only AOE/multitarget DPS.

In a group with a BLM, the SMN would never have hit those #s because the BLM would have wasted the AOE phases too quickly for DOTs + multi-Bane + Shadowflare to really deal that much damage. When you throw down a BLM + DRG + WHM Holy, then all of a sudden you have so much AOE DPS that neither DPS player will really rack up huge #s in the final parse.


T5 simply has a ton of variables. Everything from conflag/dreadstun RNG where Monks get decked 10-15 DPS on the parse for every unfavorable event, to "who gets to pew pew the first two snakes". Normally a BLM is assigned that duty. Bards can also get extra DPS from it, even if that DPS is 80% fluff / stat-padding. Summoners are the most efficient Hygeia crushers, so they tend to gain a ton of damage pad on that phase, if the group leaves it to them to drop the HP (which they should). As a minor sidenote, BLMs are actually inefficient at dropping the first 2 small snakes.

[xEscaflownex]

As a minor sidenote, BLMs are actually inefficient at dropping the first 2 small snakes.

Hmm, Fire III, 3x Fire II, Flare, Convert/SC Flare, Mana pot Flare bringing them to 40% or less in 20 seconds and then switching to ST Cad feels fairly efficient to me

[EasymodeX]

Hmm, Fire III, 3x Fire II, Flare, Convert/SC Flare, Mana pot Flare bringing them to 40% or less in 20 seconds and then switching to ST Cad feels fairly efficient to me

That's not how you measure efficiency.

Efficiency is a Summoner pressing 1 button (sidenote: ok they'd probably press 3) for the same effect over your 3x meh DPS Fire 2s that you spent close to ten seconds casting and 2x slowcast Flares which cost you another what, 7s or so? SC Flare is efficient. You could have dealt 10k more damage to Aslecpius in that time if you used a ST rotation.

BLMs have solid ST DPS, and great AOE DPS.

BLMs have bad multi-target DPS. Three targets = multi-target DPS. 2-3 targets is the worst DPS profile for a BLM, aside from their burst contribution from an SC Flare. Min-maxing means losing the least amount of single target Asclepius damage in order to achieve the necessary damage on the small snakes.

The only reason BLMs are commonly used for snake pounding is because they have "no resource pool" and because SMNs are uncommon -- with a side of an SC Flare actually being "free", efficient AOE DPS.

As a result their AOE does not detract from their ST DPS elsewhere in the fight. If you ignored TP, then in a generic group maximum snake phase DPS would involve tab-DoTing by the Bard, Dragoon, and Monk (assuming you have no SMN), with the BLM using 99% single target on Asclepius while throwing in the aforementioned SC Flare. There's also probably something you could efficiently work in with 1 AOE Ice spell during UI, but I'm not smart enough on detailed BLM mechanics to say what (edit: and it would probably require Spell Speed itemization). The BLM could probably also tab-Thunder the small snakes actually. You could probably rack up a ton of TC procs.

[GhaleonM]

On my DRG my friend says I parse up to 370 on Cad with most runs at 360-365.

Would love to see a SS of the turn 1 dps if you're doing that much.

[bokchoykn]

I'd just like to point out that the best way to maximize DPS on T5 would entail a bit of poor decision making.

Throughout the entire encounter, hitting Asclepius after receiving four Disseminate stacks would do the most damage. If you saved offensive cooldowns for this phase and unloaded them on 4-stack Asclepius, it will skyrocket your DPS.

The smarter decision would be to use your cooldowns to kill the 3rd and 4th Hygeia. This is the real DPS race, because if you kill them too slowly and if they die too late, the off-tank and melee will still have the Disseminate debuff when Twintania does her Aetheric Profusion. A common misconception that Asclepius is the real DPS race, but in actuality, killing the Hygeia quicker means DPS can continue on Asclepius sooner.

Take "top Twintania DPS" with a grain of salt. It would be more meaningful if DPS couldn't make the bad decision of waiting for 4-stack Asclepius before they unload their offensive cooldowns and potions.

[Seobit]

The main issue with T4 is the extreme skew towards SMNs and BRDs for the clockwork multi-target non-AOE phases, versus the heavy skew towards BLMs and DRGs for the AOE phases. The AOE phases themselves are problematic because a second player's AOE DPS will eat away from the first player's. As a general example, the highest SMN parse I've heard about for T4 was in a group where they (and another SMN) were the only AOE/multitarget DPS.

In a group with a BLM, the SMN would never have hit those #s because the BLM would have wasted the AOE phases too quickly for DOTs + multi-Bane + Shadowflare to really deal that much damage. When you throw down a BLM + DRG + WHM Holy, then all of a sudden you have so much AOE DPS that neither DPS player will really rack up huge #s in the final parse.

I'm assuming you're referring to the 402 dps parse I linked a bit over a month ago.

Here's with a BLM present. http://i.imgur.com/VpttB7I.jpg
Here's with two BLM present. http://i.imgur.com/1wt7D3n.jpg

I see fairly consistent dps regardless of the group. I don't think group makeup matters that much. Maybe 10, 20 dps at most. SMN should always be able to get around 400 on that fight, considering all phases are good for them.

[Zdenka]

I'm assuming you're referring to the 402 dps parse I linked a bit over a month ago.

That's sort of nice, the only problem is that its highlighting the other members in that group did very poorly because the spiders shouldn't last long enough for anyone to accumulate that much damage. The MNK in that parse is nearly 100 DPS lower than he should be, for instance and the WAR is doing about 60% of what he should be doing; most of which is from AoE on the spiders. If they had been playing how they should have been playing the damage would have flattened.


As for overall turn DPS...

Turn1: First ADS I have seen MNK and SMN both pass 400 DPS, not sure about other classes offhand on Caduceus I have seen MNK and SMN both near/pass 400 DPS as well.
Turn2: Depends if you want full parse or just ADS, but generally MNK does the most barring any variables on all trash together or just ADS.
Turn4: Usually MNK or BLM; SMN usually falls behind a little when other DPS do well. Have seen MNK at 360+ DPS on this turn, its possible for them to also break 400 like this link if given the opportunity to do so.
Turn5: Have seen every DPS top the parse, really, there's a lot of variables such as fetters, DKs etc. Have had attempts where someone has had every fetter and every DK choice and nearly every liquid hell in the last phase. I guess for 100% I'm not willing to commit to say which is the best due to these variables.

[Timebomb]

As for overall turn DPS...

Turn4: Usually MNK or BLM; SMN usually falls behind a little when other DPS do well. Have seen MNK at 360+ DPS on this turn, its possible for them to also break 400 like this link if given the opportunity to do so.

Hey Zdenka!

Truly enjoy watching BG stream coil through Hadley + Yoi's channels!

I agree with most of your claims, but I do have a bone to pick with your T4 statement. I just don't think there is a way a MNK can outdmg a BLM on T4 (granted both classes are being played correctly) unless the MNK is given some form of special treatment.

Take Arin for example, the lead he gains from the Phase 1, the supplemental Phase 4 AOE, and somewhat unlimited resource of MP is just too much momentum - MNKs would have to use rockbreaker with a supplemented TP song be able to keep up.

[Zdenka]

I agree with most of your claims, but I do have a bone to pick with your T4 statement. I just don't think there is a way a MNK can outdmg a BLM on T4 (granted both classes are being played correctly) unless the MNK is given some form of special treatment.

Maybe I'll edit that parse and black out everything but MNK and BLM and post it. On that particular Turn 4 MNK was 364 DPS and the BLM was 300-330 something

You run out of TP at the end for about 10 seconds, but if you get Paeon for 5 seconds you don't run out. IF i had Soul Voice Paeon and that let me do Arm of the Destroyer in addition to Rock Breaker, and maybe the BLM/SMN do a tad less DPS then MNK can hit the highest DPS numbers on Turn 4 out of every class. People say MNK's AoE DPS sucks, but thats only because it runs out of TP

[Timebomb]

Maybe I'll edit that parse and black out everything but MNK and BLM and post it. On that particular Turn 4 MNK was 364 DPS and the BLM was 300-330 something

You run out of TP at the end for about 10 seconds, but if you get Paeon for 5 seconds you don't run out. IF i had Soul Voice Paeon and that let me do Arm of the Destroyer in addition to Rock Breaker, and maybe the BLM/SMN do a tad less DPS then MNK can hit the highest DPS numbers on Turn 4 out of every class. People say MNK's AoE DPS sucks, but thats only because it runs out of TP

No no, I agree that MNK is capable of 360+ as I've seen it been done multiple times even without Paeon, but I meant 400+ was a bit of a stretch if you have a BLM dpsing with you as well .