Why in god's green Earth do dungeons have a timer?

[XanderOlivieri]

Considering I've been in instances on DCUO where that particular instance has been opened for nearly 24 hours and they were still on the first or second boss due to bad party management and possibly trolling, I like the timer there. It gives a sense of urgency as well as makes it to where you don't have a lot of chances of popping into an instance that is already in session for the last 6+ hours with very little progress made.

[Karnyboy]

but if I have 4-8 friends to group with then I don't believe I should be subjected to the timer...

[XanderOlivieri]

You can still have bad party set up. People need to AFK. Many things to run a timer up and backlog a server, even with data stretched across other servers. I wouldn't want to be in any dungeon for more than 3 hours. Some are lengthy enough as is, allowing prolonged to indefinite play is horrible


There are three specific DCUO events that can last for over 24 hours because the party doesn't know what to do. Even with proper time to plan the party would fail time and again to pass those specific points. The most noteable one Inner Sanctum. You get locked at two points, one where you have to fight the Robot boss near the beginning. This is the part I've never gotten past myself on any team I was with. The other part of Inner Sanctum is the actual Brother Eye Fight which was the first time I've seen a Raid with over 24 hours in progress.

As for on FFXIV, I've personally failed 4 Duties due to bad party set up. It is indeed possible. First time I've ever timed out was in Stone of Vigil. We couldn't even get to the final boss. We kept losing at the point where you have the final boss shooting ice blasts at you while fighting off one of his mini boss dragons. I ran DPS and the healer could not dish out enough healing to keep everyone alive even with us using the cannons to keep the other dragon away. We all died to tornadoes. Second time I timed out was Aurum Veil. Couldn't get past the coin counter due to him not having a targeting display. I was the only new player running that dungeon. Tank and the Monk couldn't dodge the eye beam, and the Healer was always in Cleric stance. Third time was Demzem Darkhold. We got to the final boss and timed out.

The fourth time was close to timing out. Horrible party make up, our trouble was with a "Vet" Player that had never done the dungeon before. Were running Amdapor Keep, the healer kept dropping the purple pulsating orbs right on top of where we were fighting the boss. We did that fight 8 times before beating it with only 2 mins left. We were saved by a Bard and her Paladin friend. Everyone else that joined in quit because of the healer. We went through 3 tanks and 5 other DPS members. It took nearly the entire 90 mins to do. That was the slowest I've ever ran that dungeon. Horrible party make up is still an issue. Bad players can slow a team down and no matter how much planning you put into it, they will still ruin everything.

I don't know where the locking out from the dungeons completely comes it because I've ran the same dungeon side by side three other people, we were all in different parties. I called in two people to help me with a dungeon trouble a fellow in my FC was having. We thought we'd all end up in his dungeon since his entire party bailed, and all three of us ended up in the dungeon in three different parties. Not one of us were with my FC member. Multiple versions of the same dungeon don't block, but I still do not want to enter into an already started dungeon that has been running for over 3 to 4 hours. We're given more than enough time in all the dungeons to properly set out a plan and talk about changes to the plan should we fail. Ever good dungeon encounter I've had we've done this. We'd finish with more than 20 mins left every time. We have more than enough time to test out a fight, die, and change our strategy for that fight.

Its not detrimental to have the timer. I greatly prefer it the way it is. So does the friends that came over with me from DCUO because of all the headaches we've had with all the instanced fights we've had on there for Raids and Duties.

[Karnyboy]

This is the only game I have come across with dungeon timers...I can't remember the last time I played an MMO that had one.

In the popular ones that were without a dungeon timer I honestly never saw a complaint about afk people in dungeons, etc.

Ildur is right, it's hard ot actualyl learn a dungeon to evaluate what went wrong with a ticking bomb waiting in your face reminding you that the luxury to do so is not there.

[Maku]

Now you've already been in the dungeon for 85 minutes, there's not enough time to finish it anymore and you have 2 bosses to go. Sad thing is you work tomorrow at 5am and while you love playing the game and would love to attempt the rest you just can't spare another 90 minutes to repeat the dungeon over.

There is a flaw in your thinking. 1) You learned the boss finally and thus it would not take 85min to get past him the next time you do the dungeon. 2) You can't spare another 90minutes to repeat the dungeon over (even though it will take you far less time to get past that boss this time) because you have to work at 5am. Well in your situation you still have trash mobs and 2 bosses. If it took 85 minutes to kill the first boss (the easiest one, arguably) then even if the dungeon didn't have a time you wouldn't have enough time to get through the dungeon because of your 5am work. It would stand to reason that you would take a long time on the other two bosses and end up having to give up half way anyway.

SO, since you are playing with friends (you mention if you have friends you play with you shouldn't have a timer) why not just call it quits and be like "Hey, we did good and killed that guy and can do it again. Let's leave and do this again tomorrow and get even further in the dungeon."?

[Felis]

90 - 120 minutes is more than enough time to do a dungeon. Don't even pay attention to the timer. It's not like dungeons are so well designed you have hours worth of exploring to do, 99% of the time they're a "long hallway" design that people seem to have hated in FFXIII but won't complain about in XIV

Maybe because it have nothing to do with FF XIII?

This nice dungeon as example is from FF XII:


A very "long hallway"

[Karnyboy]

...

There is no flaw, because that was a hypothetical situation that could or could not exist. I am trying to stress that a dungeon timer is silly, it makes little sense since other games have flourished without them. I am not asking that a game mechanic be removed (because I understand it won't be), but the validity of it doesn't really seem to be a good debate point.

I don't know if you realize this or not but in said hypothetical situation, if it took 85 minutes to get to a boss then any additional time repeating the dungeon is still time lost and also taking steps backwards since you are doing the same thing to just get back to the last point where you were stuck. You see he point I am trying to make?

While I do agree that playing with your friends is nice because they can understand when it's time to call it quits it's "ok.", but that doesn't deter my point I am trying to make. I value your opinion, but to say that a situation is so easily fixed without knowing why a person is stuck on a boss in game and that it was the first one is rather presumptuous.

[Felis]

I don't know if you realize this or not but in said hypothetical situation, if it took 85 minutes to get to a boss then any additional time repeating the dungeon is still time lost and also taking steps backwards since you are doing the same thing to just get back to the last point where you were stuck. You see he point I am trying to make?

If a party need 85 minutes only to get to the first boss then they did something really wrong on the way. Doing the dungeon again from the start can help to go faster to the boss. Or the party should just go to the bed.

[illuminapanic]

There is no flaw, because that was a hypothetical situation that could or could not exist. I am trying to stress that a dungeon timer is silly, it makes little sense since other games have flourished without them. I am not asking that a game mechanic be removed (because I understand it won't be), but the validity of it doesn't really seem to be a good debate point.

I don't know if you realize this or not but in said hypothetical situation, if it took 85 minutes to get to a boss then any additional time repeating the dungeon is still time lost and also taking steps backwards since you are doing the same thing to just get back to the last point where you were stuck. You see he point I am trying to make?

While I do agree that playing with your friends is nice because they can understand when it's time to call it quits it's "ok.", but that doesn't deter my point I am trying to make. I value your opinion, but to say that a situation is so easily fixed without knowing why a person is stuck on a boss in game and that it was the first one is rather presumptuous.

You asked why there was a dungeon timer and people gave you a reason. You then proceeded to argue why it isn't a good enough reason to have it. Just because it's not good enough for you doesn't stop the fact that there is a reasoning behind it and was explained. You then proceeded as to why it was a bad idea with a very bad hypothetical situation in which we pointed out to you.

I'm very sorry to say but you (any players stuck in this situation)would seem to be a horrible player if you took 85 minutes to only just get past the first boss in a dungeon. A majority of the bosses in these dungeons are pretty straight forward. Kill adds, dodge stuff, kill boss = win. The only boss that I can think of, where anyone would have trouble, is the Cyclops in Aurum Vale. The only reason is because he does not have any red indicators for people to follow from his attacks and you would have to pay attention to his casting bar.

[waldo]

People complain about not being able to learn encounters, but my one gripe with this game is the timers on dungeons...why??

I don't get it.

It's partially to do with server restrictions, partially to do with how the game is made. 1.x version was very reward oriented regarding speed runs, 2.x isn't so much, but even now you get extra rewards in the form of Gil or exp for 'swift completion' times. It stands to reason if there are rewards for finishing fast there should be a negative side to not finishing so fast (clear that trash again, you not fast enough).