I WANT TO DPS ON WAR!!

[Akirakogami]

That is why I said "inherently". Glad someone was on the ball!

inherently or not it's going to be a tank class.

[tOnni3]

turn off Defiance ?

[MrDiezel]

Alright. Lets cater an entire class, and possibly the entire balance of the game to OP. -_- I dont like him.

[Hitokirinomad]

Well here's what we had:
WHM + SCH + MNK, WHM great healer, SCH great mitigation, MNK has mantra to buff AoE heals aswell as having second wind featherfoot and fists of earth to pull it's own weight defensively.

DRG + BRD + BLM, DRG has piercing debuff which benefits both it and BRD, BRD has foe requiem to buff elemental magic damage, BLM deals elemental magic damage.

That leaves SMN, any utility debuffs it brings can be covered by SCH, it doesn't benefit from foe requiem as it's spells are non elemental, it doesn't have anything that co-ordinates well with the other jobs, it can self heal but it's just not as defensive as a MNK. That's why we chose MNK over SMN

I don't even understand this. The question isn't whether to bring a Monk over a SMN, it's whether to bring a Monk over a DRG. You bring SMN for the great damage, the free rez, the slows, the 2nd virus, and the OMG damage. You bring a monk for that mantra i guess, but also the int debuff and the insane ST damage (not the fists of earth and featherfoot...seriously?). In the end, who cares that DRG buffs bard damage? The Monk and SMN bring more than enough damage to offset that piercing debuff, w/o relying on the DRG hitting his positionals.

[slipmac]

Alright. Lets cater an entire class, and possibly the entire balance of the game to OP. -_- I dont like him.

^this. i clicked like

[Suroruro]

Foes requiem works for smner, would be better if you actually knew the class before dissmissing it. Smn has one of the strongest single target dps, the absolute king of multi target dps (2-4 mobs) and still a beast at aoe(4+ mobs) with shadowflare, Miasma 2 and double bane:ing.

This guy made me burst out laughing and my dog woke up and stared at me. Its 6 AM cut me some slack.

Also to the people who argued the perfect party, Monk is the highest DPS currently because they are OP (On fights that matter like Twin, Primals shaft them with the jumps.) SMN rarely if ever beats the other DPS, I would consider them the weakest DPS even. BUT. Their utility is invaluable, And the compliment other DPS well. So I would bring a SMN over a DRG in the ultimate 8man party.

[Viridiana]

That leaves SMN, any utility debuffs it brings can be covered by SCH, it doesn't benefit from foe requiem as it's spells are non elemental, it doesn't have anything that co-ordinates well with the other jobs, it can self heal but it's just not as defensive as a MNK. That's why we chose MNK over SMN

You could at least read the updated BRD ability description. I'd understand if it were still 2.0 and you were having to test things out on your own or take people's word for it, but SE has even changed the ability description to tell you that Foe works on all magical damage.

[Judge_Xero]

You could at least read the updated BRD ability description. I'd understand if it were still 2.0 and you were having to test things out on your own or take people's word for it, but SE has even changed the ability description to tell you that Foe works on all magical damage.

But SMN doesn't have big numbers. So therefore is less DPS. That's why MRD needs a DPS class.

[Remn]

SMN dps is up there w/ MNK on ST. if MNK can keep Gl3 and rotation goin MNK will be beat SMN, if they lose GL3 a lot then a good SMN will win

[Sleigh]

I don't even understand this. The question isn't whether to bring a Monk over a SMN, it's whether to bring a Monk over a DRG. You bring SMN for the great damage, the free rez, the slows, the 2nd virus, and the OMG damage. You bring a monk for that mantra i guess, but also the int debuff and the insane ST damage (not the fists of earth and featherfoot...seriously?). In the end, who cares that DRG buffs bard damage? The Monk and SMN bring more than enough damage to offset that piercing debuff, w/o relying on the DRG hitting his positionals.

A well-geared BRD's extra DPS (in the 30~ range if played right) from the DRG debuff will easily out-pace the slightly higher ST damage from MNK (in the 10-20 range), and in some fights DRG's sustained DPS will single-handedly beat MNK's.