What I envisioned for Summoner

[AlrikRouge]

Haha! Makes sense then on the multiple posts.

They could make another advanced class to the SMN, specifically focused around these points. They could lower the DPS strength of its inidividual magic attacks, and then have it on a 240 second cool down to be able to summon all primals (chose one, not all at once) that do special attacks, buffs, etc, similar to what you mentioned before. Give it all the basic 1 spells and DoT spells, with primal summons as it's main forte. Ifrit, Shiva, Titan, etc, with either AoE or inidividual attack skills, or party buffs.

Just bring back a traditional summoner though, and tweak it from there; not call something a summoner in a final fantasy game and not have it represent a summoner from the series itself. Hell, make them summon a beast to replace you for X time to do some bad as heck attacks or such or healing and buff, using the same concept as pet controls. But summon a BEAST!

[AlrikRouge]

This is not to argue that the current SMN is not a good class or can't DPS et al. It's just again, not a Final Fantasy summoner.

[Judge_Xero]

I like what they did with the FFXIV Summoner. Before Summoner was released though I pictured it as like Yuna from Dissidia 012.

[Enkidoh]

This is not to argue that the current SMN is not a good class or can't DPS et al. It's just again, not a Final Fantasy summoner.

You're right in that it can definitely be improved, but I quite like how the egis are at the moment - they're small enough to be manageable and at least are reflective of their overall power - the player Avatars in FFXI for instance were nothing but watered down versions of the real thing. Still potent, but nothing like what they should be despite being the same size as the 'true' Avatar (which is the same technical reason why the egis are so small in ARR is why certain summons still will never be summonable in XI, like Bahamut - they're just too big!).

And contradicting what I said earlier about the storyline not allowing proper summoning of Primals, it seemed in 1.0 the storyline actually was setting up the player that they could in fact summon a Primal themselves, but ultimately that part was developed other than a brief discussion during one 1.0 story quest and it was never mentioned again, and has seemingly been abandoned in ARR. Which is unfortunate, but I guess that could be again for the technical reasons mentioned above.

[Albus_Stiltskin]

I appreciate your responses Enkidoh, but the views I've expressed are just that. I never took game mechanics or lore into account when I wrote this. I've just got a mental image in my head of how I think a summoner should be in FF14. I'm also looking for other people to show there views on how they might like to play summoner, getting the ideas out there so if the devs do read they can atleast see we are trying to give some feedback. I'm pretty sure the stuff I've listed can't make it into the game for whatever reason, be it technical or lore based or class based. Then again things change, classes/jobs will inevitably be reviewed to balance around potential new jobs to be added. I just hope some time in he future that the summoner class will feel like a summoner or what I personally feel a summoner ought to be. Let's hope we get something we all like!! ^^

[Enkidoh]

It's no problem Albus, I'm sorry if I came across as too nasty in my posts, and yes, you're right that the developers could always find a way of improving the Job in accordance with the game's lore - the game after all is still its infancy after all.

[NintenPyjak64]

I like what they did with the FFXIV Summoner. Before Summoner was released though I pictured it as like Yuna from Dissidia 012.

The reason they're like that actually is because the full Aeon would push the PSP past it's limits. Leaving it compressed as a half body and the summoning circle was just to save on processing, I guess similar to how PS3 XIV was handled. Other then that I do love SMN in this game. It's pretty fun to play once you have an understanding of it's abilities.

As per the point where it requires multiple summoners to summon the entire primal, I can see this working toward the planned primal feature where an FC would summon a Primal to fight with them once. I imagine they could fit that into the lore by a FC specific Limit Break to be used by a Summoner (Let's say it requires a Level 10 FC to claim and use and you purchase a 4th LB bar with company credits)

[jars]

so what exactly would you do when your summon is not out?

dots and summons work well together, because dots let you deal damage while focusing on your pet.

[jlewiss]

so what exactly would you do when your summon is not out?

dots and summons work well together, because dots let you deal damage while focusing on your pet.

That implies you really have a lot to focus on with your pet. If we are going to go down the "if i had it my way" path, I would do a couple things differently. I would maybe have rather then any attack skills as smn job you just exclusively summon abilities. You summon that pet and they do an attack until they die or you switch pets. The level 1 pet can be one that uses a basic attack. The level 2 pet could be a pet that uses aoe dmg. The level 3 pet could inflict debuffs. The level 4 pet could buff etc. I would eliminate the conveniently written in lore that suggests you need to beat a primal before you could summon it. I would remove the conveniently written lore that says our egi's have to look like random 3d textures lumped together. Tri disaster I'll argue to the death is a completely useless skill, enkindle as it currently is might as well be useless and I would much rather have a different summon that was perhaps on a timer that did equal damage. Fester I would gladly get rid of again for a summoner class that actually focused on summoning. Spur as it is I would rather have removed in place of a summon skill and then add half of its utility to rouse, I think it's really unnecessary that we have 2 separate buffs for pet damage when we could of had another skill.

If I'm being 100% honest the arcanist/summoner class honestly feels like it was thrown together with random ideas and then they picked a random name to apply to it then wrote in a few lines of lore to justify their reasoning behind things. Has yoshi actually made an offical comment as to why summoner is a dot class? It also confuses me how for a summoner job 2/5 skills have nothing to do with summoning. Tri disaster I really challange anyone to give me a good reason as to why that skill fits in with summoners, and again fester could of been replaced with any number of other skills. Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant but I just am really dissapointed with how this class is.

[Ryuko]

Summoner in FFXIV makes a lot of sense if you think of it as a specialization of arcanist -- not its own standalone entity. Plenty of MMOs have base classes with different talent trees or specializations, where you get to pick and choose what type of role you want to play. FFXIV is different in that there is no wiggle room; once you choose your specialization, that's it. You equip the soulstone and you are a summoner. The summoner job in this game makes a lot of sense if you take the summoner quest lore, general world lore, and arcanist lore into account. As others have pointed out, summoners across final fantasies have all varied greatly. FFX in particular introduced the idea of a summoner who actually kept a pet out, protecting the party. FFXI solidified summoner as a 'pet' class.

What's really interesting is that OP wants summoner to be MORE like the Final Fantasies of old, while the usual critiques I see on the class is that not ENOUGH emphasis is given on the pet as a separate entity. As a level 50 SMN that pulls off 300~ dps in any given fight, my pet does about 50-60 dps. That's less than one third of me, but... raw numbers don't take into account all of the added bonuses your pet gives. Extra burst damage from Rouse/Spur/Enkindle and extended dots from Contagion are worth more than players may at first realize. Dying and not having your pet out with you right away once you are raised really hurts, and it does a noticeable blow to the summoner's effectiveness.

I am happy with the summoner pet class in this game. Although it is very reminiscent of the functionality of warlock in WoW (dot pet class), it does have its own flavor that I quite enjoy. It is unlike any other class, and drastically different from the only other caster. The lore fits the class and while everyone is entitled to their opinion of what summoner 'should' be, SE has proved over the years and many Final Fantasies that there is no 'one' right answer. My personal favorite type of summoner is one that always has the pet out, so I suppose that is another reason I like how it was represented in this game.