Minor tank balancing ideas. (WAR & PLD)

[Tiggy]

This seems like a solution in search of a problem. Tanks aren't there for DPS so anyone focusing on that is just missing the point. Fights are so dynamic that the tank who does more DPS tends to be the one not moving around or changing targets as much. Mitigation Vs AoE seems spot on as well. War has a slight edge in AoE threat, and Pld have a slight edge in mitigation. What exactly is the problem here? They are very balanced and both are useful. This sounds like you're simply trying to make them identical in effect. That would be boring.

[whiskeybravo]

Changes are stupid.

Yes, i agree that warriors are basicly GODS now after their update and that Paladin could use a little buff as well. However 1/20 chance of a little extra damage, when Circle of Scorn can only be used every 25 seconds?

This whole thing about AoE damage and what not can easily be circumvented by one simple change:

Set Circle of Scorn's Recast Time from 25 Seconds to 2.5 Seconds on Global Cooldown, Let us use it whenever we like. At 100 base potency, it's not going to hurt anyone if we can spam it. It's just nice for a little bit of AoE damage. Warriors can spam their AoE attack(s), why cant we?

That still doesn't make things equal considering overpower has an enmity modifier... Damage-wise, a full CoS does twice as much damage as overpower, so you would also have to get rid of the DoT effect to keep things balanced (and probably add TP cost as Nate mentioned)

[Seifu]

This seems like a solution in search of a problem. Tanks aren't there for DPS so anyone focusing on that is just missing the point. Fights are so dynamic that the tank who does more DPS tends to be the one not moving around or changing targets as much. Mitigation Vs AoE seems spot on as well. War has a slight edge in AoE threat, and Pld have a slight edge in mitigation. What exactly is the problem here? They are very balanced and both are useful. This sounds like you're simply trying to make them identical in effect. That would be boring.

What about the Off-GCD Inner Beast?

[Tiggy]

What about the Off-GCD Inner Beast?

It's only a couple seconds of buff, and the heal is now negligible. The fact that it is so short and pops up often is part of what keeps wars viable compared to paladin's in the damage reduction department considering War damage reduction abilities are weaker than PLDs in most cases. It's not like it's over powered like overpower. It's best used on fights where you know a big hit is coming (Titan HM table flips), but in some fights it's not nearly that useful and you just pop it at every occasion. Or are you trying to refer to the damage component? I'm not sure how it being off GCD is really that important when most of the time you wait for that giant axe to stop moving anyway.

[Shujinkou]

Good luck getting your unwarranted opinion taken seriously by SE.
You can't just start a thread asking for changes just because you 'think' or 'feel' a class needs balance adjustment.
Gimme gimme never gets.

[Dhex]

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Inner Beast is tied to the GCD.

Meaning that - unlike Rampart - you must time your combos in such a way that it does not hamstring your ability to accurately time and execute Inner Beast.

As the duration is short - and it's mitigation peer Rampart is off GCD - asking to have Wrath V abilities off the GCD is entirely reasonable and would vastly improve WAR quality of life and would merely balance Inner Beast compared with Rampart.

edit: (Slightly long) I'd also like to point out that Shield Swipe is the highest potency per TP move in the game - you may not get the Pacification effect but it's cheap & effective DPS as a Paladin.

Shield Bash is rather useless once you move into Full Party content - which is bad and I would agree it needs a retool - but more damage is not necessary.

Warrior's Brutal Swing is off the GCD and has no TP cost allowing it to be weaved easily into combinations for minor gains in damage with no negative side effect.

Personally I would like to see Shield Bash grant a stagger effect that allows DPS to up their damage for a short period. Stuns aren't that useful - MNK has 2 stuns, Dragoon has 2 stuns. Why does PLD need a GCD stun that has no use past Light Party content?

I believe Inner Beast could also do with a % HP return increase but the potency should not be reduced - it would make the HP return increase pointless. As it is there is no reason to use Inner Beast for it's healing component - it's preemptory now whereas before it was entirely reactionary. Taking it off the GCD and increasing the % HP returned would make the ability more flexible.

[Tiggy]

you must time your combos in such a way that it does not hamstring your ability to accurately time and execute Inner Beast.

As the duration is short - and it's mitigation peer Rampart is off GCD - asking to have Wrath V abilities off the GCD is entirely reasonable and would vastly improve WAR quality of life and would merely balance Inner Beast compared with Rampart.

I really don't feel like this is a problem at all. God forbid some players have to use their brains to pre-plan and use a skill effectively with some amount of competence. As I pointed out Inner Beasts best uses are in fights where you know the attack is on it's way. (Titan, and Twintania are good examples) Being on the GCD isn't a hindrance to use this ability effectively at all. I've never felt even a single time that those abilities were difficult to plan and use in a fight. I don't understand what the problem everyone here is trying to fix really is. I feel just as useful as a PLD in all end game content, and I don't feel that any of my abilities are hindering me from being more effective either. Since 2.1 warrior has felt very balanced and effective.

[WiseWolfHolo]

War and paladin are both fine. The only changes really needed are paladin needs a combo that is not a debuff/enmity generator so as OT they can actually do something else except 1,2,3 and change cover. Make cover a mirror armor that you cast on an ally that reflects 10% of the damage received back to the attacker, so it gives a 10% reduction.

[Tiggy]

The only changes really needed are paladin needs a combo that is not a debuff/enmity generator so as OT they can actually do something else except 1,2,3

100% this. I'm beginning to tire of PLDs who rip hate off me when I try to throw one debuff combo in for the extra mitigation. It would help if their only option wasn't a hate generator.

[Dhex]

100% this. I'm beginning to tire of PLDs who rip hate off me when I try to throw one debuff combo in for the extra mitigation. It would help if their only option wasn't a hate generator.

Paladin's should totally learn to Stoneskin/Riot Combo to help their MT endlessly when they OT; and only put the STR debuff back on when it wears.

But good luck convincing someone to do that...

I know for certain encounters opening up full bore with Unchained/Berserk allows me to build enough enmity not to worry about the other tank too much but that can take some practice dealing with the fallout (Pacification) - hopefully by that point it'll be time for the OT to swap with you anyway though.