I want Wyverns back!!

[PArcher]

SNIP

Lv37 LNC...

Yeah...none of the classes are hard at that level...

And no...DRG have only 2 things that can be considered "utility"; Stuns (Leg Sweep/Spineshatter Dive...only if you need stuns and the tank doesn't do it) and Disembowel (only if you have a BRD in party)...


Also, DRG traditionally JUMP, not have pets...

[Pere]

I could care less if they add another job that uses a wyvern, just leave Dragoon in peace and do not add a wyvern to it, I want my Dragoon to jump and deal damage and not to care for a pet.

[PiedPiper]

A) Dragons are evil zomg: Wasn't the wyvern egg in 11 also gained from an evil dragon, but much like dobermans and pit bulls, its in how they are raised not their nature? I surely hope it was an evil dragon, cus we totally murder faced her, and that'd be jacked up if it wasn't evil.

B) Drg in 11 was only lol because they kileld TP generation when they nerfed mutli hit wepaonskills and never replaced the mechanic.

C) SE said they cant' do wyvern in 1.0 cus 1) code didn't support 2) would have to make drg hit for less.

^ Both of those issues have clearly been solved for SMN.

Solution: Do not change dragoon. Add a new Lancer job that gets the wyvern. This way the job gets a full set of skills to make a pet class work, and we get a new mele non-magic pet class, which is cool and kinda unique in MMOs. Everyone wins.

[Zenaku]

snip.

If you mean add other job that use the pet on lancer then ya that what i like also and said in my post. But if you mean add a new class then it have to use something else that is not a polearm. Because in ffxiv world the wep is the class and people want to play a pet dragon job with a polearm.

[EasymodeX]

Let the beast tamer class have a wyvern.

[Gamemako]

C) SE said they cant' do wyvern in 1.0 cus 1) code didn't support 2) would have to make drg hit for less.

They would still have to do the second. LNC hits much too hard to support a pet. LNC (the class) will crush individual SMN DPS by a good 25% (not counting Contagion, a pet ability which boosts the damage of the SMN itself). Additionally, melee DPS are heavily focused on mobility.

Solution: Do not change dragoon. Add a new Lancer job that gets the wyvern.

Again, Lancer is the problem here. First, you'd have two jobs associated with Ishgard under the exact same theme; and second, you'd have a movement-heavy job attempting to simultaneously control a pet (and seriously, if you think micromanagement isn't essential at endgame, you haven't played either ACN job yet). It's just not going to happen. More likely to get a pet as a melee are are a tank base job, like a MRD or GLA. MRD DPS is still a bit too high to support a pet, however. GLA is the one and only melee job at this time really capable of handling a pet.

Finally, you could not have the job accessible at all prior to completion of all Ishgard-related stories (necessarily ending in reconciliation with the Dravanian horde), because someone carrying a wyvern in Coerthas would be subject to immediate execution. Can you imagine how silly it would be with a wyvern in the execution quest, telling the NPC about someone who summoned a wyvern with your own flying over your shoulder?

[PiedPiper]

They would still have to do the second. LNC hits much too hard to support a pet. LNC (the class) will crush individual SMN DPS by a good 25% (not counting Contagion, a pet ability which boosts the damage of the SMN itself). Additionally, melee DPS are heavily focused on mobility.

Again, Lancer is the problem here. First, you'd have two jobs associated with Ishgard under the exact same theme; and second, you'd have a movement-heavy job attempting to simultaneously control a pet (and seriously, if you think micromanagement isn't essential at endgame, you haven't played either ACN job yet). It's just not going to happen. More likely to get a pet as a melee are are a tank base job, like a MRD or GLA. MRD DPS is still a bit too high to support a pet, however. GLA is the one and only melee job at this time really capable of handling a pet.

Finally, you could not have the job accessible at all prior to completion of all Ishgard-related stories (necessarily ending in reconciliation with the Dravanian horde), because someone carrying a wyvern in Coerthas would be subject to immediate execution. Can you imagine how silly it would be with a wyvern in the execution quest, telling the NPC about someone who summoned a wyvern with your own flying over your shoulder?

So, A) I understand endgame. I've cleared turn 5 to bro. To be frank, Pet based abilities would probably be similar to what we see on SMN atm (Either buffs to make the pet hit for more, pet ultimate attack, or pet moves that modify your moves). These abilities would likely just fit in new places in the basic lancer rotaion and not themselves be positioned based, thus not really impacting the position play. Just sort of logistically, why would it matter which side of the mob I'm on when I give my pet a verbal command? Revisit this later. Also, as for micromanagement... I mean I've got schi88 and I've done all content on it as well. So.. yeah I feel you but I think you are overestimating the challenge.

B) Reducing base damage isn't a problem and doesn't pose a threat to current lnc/drg play. Its totally okay to make its so our WyvernGoon receives a sort of stance buff when it calls the pet. Ex: Summon Wyvern: Calls forth your wtfamazeballs friend, reduces personal damage X%. There is no problem here. When I stated that they had "solved" this issue for 2.0 I simply meant that Summoner on its own does less damage than a black mage, but when summoner uses its pet, together smn + garuda egi = (approximately) a blm's damage. Point here being: SE has clearly learned how to balance pet and master over all damage to be commiserate with other classes.

C) MRD and GLD dps are actually pretty close to each other (both classes have nearly the same possible enmity generation)... so yeah there's that. I'm full i90 both classes, tanked every fight in the game on both. That said, I've no idea how a pet-tank class would work, but could be cool.

D) I don't see how the story is a problem. YP and SE have said they want to expand the current armory system and deepen it, adding at least two jobs for every class, and even adding "advanced" jobs that need to be unlocked via quests or meeting multiple level requirements (such as both cnj and thm 30 for rdm). So sure, make the person have finished that part of the story line. Cool. Problem solved. Fluff is never an insurmountable barrier preventing content. That's the nifty thing about fiction writing, you just write more fiction to solve these problems.

E) The real issue isn't so much balancing the class or what have you, its having a reason to add it in the first place other than "we miss the pretty dragon give us fan service." Cus if all they did was reduce personal damage and make the wyvern make up that difference so you were just a different dragoon who got part of its damage from AI... there'd kind of be no point. The player would hit the same buttons, do the same things, just see wyvern animations along side them. It would be pretty trivial for SE to just code the wyvern to do X dps, and reduce potency on the weaponskills of the lancer by that same amount of an ideal or near ideal rotation. So.... lets talk about what sort of role it would need to fill, other than just staby staby.

E-1) At present, there isn't a very interesting buff/debuff meta game. Protect, adlo, stoneskin, damage over time.... sure some reduced healing received but that's almost entirely irrelevant in PVE. Lethargy and the other slow walk effects are nifty in turn 5 dreds.. but again pretty trivial elsewhere. If, however, WyvernGoon was made into a sort of mele-synergist/saboteur that perhaps used some sort of charge system (like warrior's wrath) to command the wyvern to use various breath magics, we could get a very interesting class. Completing the third step of a combo builds a charge, maybe 3 charges needed per WyvernSpellBreathShiny (or maybe only two, let SE balance that). Charge awarded regardless of positioning as long as the combo finsihes (of course, CT still has to be started from the back). This would heavily reduce the importance of moving for the WyvernGoon (Could just post up behind, sacrifice HT and build charges since they ahve reduced damage as is). Better players will have room to get more out of the class (continuing to move while managing the pet, but the focus of pet management requires only being behind)--and every class does and should have some room like this for better players to get more.

E-2) As to actual pet abilities, I mean... depends on what else SE is planning on doing. Maybe breath attacks enchant the target so that anyone striking the target receives the buff (Zephyr Breath: Players attacking the target receive a skill and spell speed buff for what ever amount and time is balanced, comparable to selene but buffs both, though obviously won't always affect healers). Or, could go with a battle pace theme, giving the Wyvern a slow debuff that can be applied (Not actually that unheard of since in 11 drg did end up getting power surge which granted a sort of haste) to enemies, with about the same total effect as ROH or Storms now. Maybe an HP or TP drain (TP would be really interesting). Could be a way to finally give us the en-fire we saw in the 1.0 trailer.

To be honest, it doesn't really matter what they ultimately add as the buff/debuff effects, just as long as they impact the group enough to keep the class viable. A spirit-link style move to maintain the pet and some basic placement commands will be enough. (perhaps something as simple as telling it to attack from front, attack from behind, attack from side, since it'll be mele like the wyvergoon rather than the full place that acn has).

TL; DR: Make WyvernGoon a support class, rather than a straight up DPS like Dragoon, and pretty much all problems solved. You can justify throttling the damage while still contributing to the group, makes it feel different from just dragoon, doesn't step on dragoon's toes, and adds diversity to our current play experience. Have the support moves tied to the pet and successful comboing and the increase in micromanagement relative to dragoon will be pretty small. (You'll have far fewer off gcd abilities and can spend that time ordering your pet).

If you mean add other job that use the pet on lancer then ya that what i like also and said in my post. But if you mean add a new class then it have to use something else that is not a polearm. Because in ffxiv world the wep is the class and people want to play a pet dragon job with a polearm.

I said add a new lancer job. Not sure where the confusion is. Let me be clear: This would be a second soul crystal equipped by the lancer class, just like SCH and SMN

[SinnersCreed]

Lv37 LNC...

Yeah...none of the classes are hard at that level...

And no...DRG have only 2 things that can be considered "utility"; Stuns (Leg Sweep/Spineshatter Dive...only if you need stuns and the tank doesn't do it) and Disembowel (only if you have a BRD in party)...


Also, DRG traditionally JUMP, not have pets...

Dont be so retarded... dont you think that I already looked up rotation and seen the 24 button cycle? found the off cycles and checked stat priorities, mat builds? if you check my original post it says that I have been playing these games for over 14 years... pretty sure I know wtf I'm talking about, thx.

[SinnersCreed]

We already told you, we dont' want a wyvern. If you want a pet job play summoner.

"we already told you"? who is we? you and a small handfull of trololo? gtfo, go waste someone else's thread's space, thx

[PArcher]

Dont be so retarded... dont you think that I already looked up rotation and seen the 24 button cycle? found the off cycles and checked stat priorities, mat builds? if you check my original post it says that I have been playing these games for over 14 years... pretty sure I know wtf I'm talking about, thx.

Yep...no experience in this game, but you've played other RPGs/MMOs before so you're an expert.

Just because I've been playing FPSs for over 20 years doesn't mean I'm the best person out there and will dominate every match I'm in


EDIT: also, saying you looked up a guide so you're an expert is still silly...how many people have watched Titan EX/Turn 5 vids yet can't clear them?