Questions/Theories About Coil (Long Read SPOILERS)

[Skies]

Technically, some of those remains of airships spread all over COULD be remains of the battle of Carteneu

[Anonymoose]

Yeah, now that I look around closer, it does seem to be a bit of a mixed bag.

As for what's up with Louisoix and Darnus, I'm not sure where they're going with that. It doesn't get more clear than the Director / Producer of the game flat out saying, "[Darnus] is dead," so the vibe I got off the whole thing was that they were kind of going Return of the Jedi with it; the aetherial revenants of two figures deeply entangled with Bahamut, putting aside their now-inconsequential worldly differences to muse on the current state of things and influence what little they can.

[RolandDebreton]

Yeah, now that I look around closer, it does seem to be a bit of a mixed bag.

As for what's up with Louisoix and Darnus, I'm not sure where they're going with that. It doesn't get more clear than the Director / Producer of the game flat out saying, "[Darnus] is dead," so the vibe I got off the whole thing was that they were kind of going Return of the Jedi with it; the aetherial revenants of two figures deeply entangled with Bahamut, putting aside their now-inconsequential worldly differences to muse on the current state of things and influence what little they can.

Couldn't agree more.

Yeah, he was making it clear that the Raven Battle ended with 1.23 and the Raven was dead. Actually, I was unsurprised to see Patrick Swayze action from Louisoix, and was not floored but intrigued and super interested when I saw the crystal imbued floating head of Bahamut, but I must say they caught me by surprise when I looked across the way and saw the Raven. As a nerd who thought I knew how things would play out, and after seeing him dissolve into red aether and float off to Dalamud I thought I was done seeing Darnus.

[WellGramarye]

So I've been quite busy taking SS of everything interesting I could find around Eorzia. Lots of pictures incoming. Lets called this compilation LorEorzia :

First up I managed to get some images of the Dalamud ruins in the Burning area.




The over aspected crystals are interesting here as they seem to be pulled towards it as well as polluping out of the ground below it. There is a spot lower near it where it seems like the crystals were taking near plant like shapes. (Tinfoil hat) I have a theory that crystallization that happens is substance returning to its natural form. That in its primordial form the entire planet may have looked similar to this and from the crystals all other substance formed. The Hydalin in the cutscenes we see is the "soul" of the planet; its consciousness.

Next is the Piece we see near Falgout Float.





Whats really interesting about this place is the lack of over aspected aether as well as the damage. It seems that something blew out he side of the salvage with tremendous force. There is buckling of the metal outwards and the floating debris seems to have be propelled from this spot then suspended, almost as after whatever was blown out caused time to stop. In game unlike the floating city of Nym, these rocks do not bob up and down; they are actually quite static and unmoving. I like the believe that perhaps something escaped from this wreckage.

These are the only two pieces I could find other than the Boulder Downs one; which is already been noted in this thread. None of the Aetheric spots in La Noscea seem to actually have a visible site of wreckage. Coil 1-5 isn't visible in the Wineport area and there is no site of wreckage on Umbral Isle nor the shore of the Salt Strand.


Next up is about Allagans; notably the depictions of the 12 found across Eorzia.

Depiction of Thal


Depiction of Nald



Depiction of the "Silent King"


Depiction of someone at the High Bridge


These last two use the same general model as the two "named" of the twelve. I found this really interesting and it leads me to believe that each of the twelve were perhaps respected leaders of their section of the Allagans. If the Allagans indeed had an empire that spanned the whole continent and more then they could have been something akin to Mayors or Military Generals. Its also interesting that the only statuesque depictions (at least as far as I am able to find) are in the Thanlan regions. This leads to my next speculation.


In the Sagoli Desert you can find Allagan Ruins. One of the npcs in the pumping station mentions how the Allagans must have died of the heat as a joke.





This immediately made me think of one of the plot threads in FFXI. If you haven't played it There was an area just north of the city Windurst that had ancient ruins. The plot thread was that the ruins were sapping life from the lands and that they were turning barren. If there was an Allagan civilization where the Sagoli Desert stands today it seems likely perhaps their tinkering with the aether could have caused the Desert to form. The surrounding area really does seem to have supported more water at one time with the way there are many standing stone structures.



The invisible city has the same aesthetics as that of the High Bridge Ruins as well as the Sagoli Desert ruins. I also noticed that the zombies there had a glow on their arms that seemed to echo that of the over aspected aether.



With the zombies and the depictions of the twelve, could the Allagans have been a Hyur like race? Hopefully more will be revealed about the Allagans as we climb the Crystal Tower.





Next up with have other Civilizations.



Qarn shares the same aesthetics as the ruins in the Sagoli Desert and High Bridge so at first I was thinking perhaps it was Allagan as well, but the npc right outside states that


I'd want to think this other civilization appropriated the temple in their time and that it was indeed Allagan in origin but I can't seem to find any information about them very much at least in ARR.


Next we have famous Nym which has a wholly different aesthetic than that of Thanlan.




The floating city again strikes me as a magic experiment gone wrong. With the state of the ruins it seems that perhaps the city was seeking a way to separate themselves from the sea as well as end the conflict with the Amdaporri but it went horribly wrong.

[WellGramarye]

Due to forums had to split into two posts. They limit amount of images per post!

Then there's Sil'dih, which warred with Ul'dah.




It strikes me odd that the cities are literally on top of each other. Sil'dih being under the plateau that Ul'dah is situated on.



Last two things that struck me as interesting. While exploring the Shroud I decided to head to the Church of the Twelve to see if there were any depictions of them there.



What I noticed when approaching was that the side flooded areas actually hid sets of stairs that seemed to go downwards.



And after examining the area, the textures on the wall seem to indicate that the water level in this area has changed a few times.



As algae has grown up the side the stonework. Stating east I could see what looked like buildings in the distance. So I decided to investigate and it turned out to be a fence of some kind that ruins all along the Eastern area of the Shroud in this zone.



And can be seen behind the Garlean Caustrum in the area as well.



At first I thought it might be Garlean but it looks wooden and all Garlean aesthetics have used their own types of dark metals. You can also not see it from any other of the Shroud zones. I tried looking from the Quarrymill area but it is not visible there.



Speaking of Garlean there is a lot of Garlean trash in the Shroud near there and in regards to the water level of the Church of the Twelve it seems really low in the Sylphlands areas.


I really hope we get more explanations on the mysteries of the game

Bonus picture for sticking through this post:

[Vydos]

I love threads like these. Exchanging ideas, views and speculations in a way to try and find out what is going on.

I'm the type of person who sits and ponders deeply about those things. And usually I tend to be close to the truth but I have to admit that I'm having troubles finding the links and why ascians, allagans and so on did/do what they are doing. I had many theories that ended in a dead end. But for the sake of trying to look things from a different viewpoint, I'll give you my own thoughts.

I'm going to seperate everything for ease of read(hopefully)

The Ascians

The most enigmatic group of the game and also the ones that keep contradicting my self-thought theories. The things that we currently do know at this point are:
- Seeking the ressurection of Zodiark(at least those in black)
- Gifting beastmen and people with knowledge. Primals for the beastmen, ancient "artifacts" for the allagan and the empire.

Among all the groups, the ascians tend to be most mysterious bunch. Their actions almost sometimes looking like they contradict each other. And I believe once we know more about them that we can get a clearer view of things and why everything happened.

Bahamut, his heart, ultima weapon and following what we know about the ascians.

My current preferred theory

I am still leaning more towards my own theory of the current Bahamut not really being Bahamut. At least his outer appearance. We all know that primals and crystals tend to be closely tied and knit together. From odin, to the current primals. So my own theory, is that the heart is a giant crystal that works like the "Heart of Sabik". But much more powerful, to the extent of being able to trap an elder primal inside. And inside is none other than the actual Bahamut, which is used to power a much larger allagan made Bahamut replica shell.

At least for me it explains how a primal can still be alive while having all its limbs ripped apart. And having allagan machines fix him again. And I'm also pointing to the fact by how the allagans managed to enhance Asheron to great extents. Not to mention being able to build a giant prison called Dalamud. Seems like something well in their means to create.

Gaps in my theory

Again, them ascians that makes things confusing...

Q: question - T: my own theory - C: Conflict
Q: Why would the ascians go through such an extent to offer the allagans with tools to capture and try to enslave Bahamut? Only to see him being shot into orbit. And then being thrilled to see Bahamut again?
T: Perhaps Zodiark resides inside Bahamuts heart instead of my theory of bahamut himself.


Q: Why did the allagans want to risk having their own Bahamut pet? What great threat forced them to do this? Or were they just blinded with the thought and sight of having the ultimate weapon in their hands?
T: Perhaps there was a difference between the Allagans and the Ascians? Turning into a war/conflict. Ressurection of Zodiark perhaps. Did the allagans got used by the Ascians who then succesfully managed to ressurect Zodiark, leading in the allagans growing desperate and creating Bahamut to fight Zodiark or whatever threat there was?
C: Again, Ascians seemed thrilled with the return of Bahamut. So again doesn't make sense. Unless the creation of Bahamut was a necessary plan and the Allagans were quick to catch on and sealed him inside Dalamud.

Final random theories.

Random theory 1

The entire Bahamut project was originally a succes. Capturing Bahamut inside the "heart" and creating a larger outer shell. Succesfully controlling him. But perhaps something happened and the heart was also used to then seal Zodiark inside. Which made Bahamut go berserk.

Random theory 2

Perhaps Zodiark can't manifest himself in an actual body like the primals. After all, Hydaelyn doesn't do this either. Instead Bahamut is used as a body for Zodiark to control. Might explain why he was suddenly attracted to Louisoix at the battle of Cartenau. Sensing the person who brings out the power of the twelve and Hydaelyn? Aka his rival.

[Sholah]

Next up is about Allagans; notably the depictions of the 12 found across Eorzia.

The Silent King, ruins at High Bridge, the Invisible City, the ruins in the Sagolii, and the Sunken Temple of Qarn are actually all Belah'dian, not Allagan. The two statues have symbols of Azeyma above their heads, and we know the Belah'dians were worshipers of Azeyma, which makes for some interesting implications given that they look exactly like depictions of Nald'thal.

[Marishi-Ten]

Whats really interesting about this place is the lack of over aspected aether as well as the damage. It seems that something blew out he side of the salvage with tremendous force. There is buckling of the metal outwards and the floating debris seems to have be propelled from this spot then suspended, almost as after whatever was blown out caused time to stop. In game unlike the floating city of Nym, these rocks do not bob up and down; they are actually quite static and unmoving. I like the believe that perhaps something escaped from this wreckage.

The floating boulders move, albeit slowly. I actually sat and watched them for a time to see if they did. It's not so much a freeze in time (though it looks like the crystal formations around the other Dalamud wreckage's look like time WAS frozen and the chaotic crystal formations were the explosion tails) but that it's suspending matter in zero gravity or has it's own gravitational pull. Fallgourd Float also has (debatably) the most intact piece of Dalamud and this may have something to do with it.

These are the only two pieces I could find other than the Boulder Downs one; which is already been noted in this thread. None of the Aetheric spots in La Noscea seem to actually have a visible site of wreckage. Coil 1-5 isn't visible in the Wineport area and there is no site of wreckage on Umbral Isle nor the shore of the Salt Strand.

I think the Wineport Dalamud piece isn't visible as it may have struck a natural sink hole or a cavernous network (the Garleans got there first so I don't think they would just hand over their geological surveys to us) which could lend support to Bahamut always being under Cartenau Flats.

The invisible city has the same aesthetics as that of the High Bridge Ruins as well as the Sagoli Desert ruins. I also noticed that the zombies there had a glow on their arms that seemed to echo that of the over aspected aether.

I believe that the Zombies reference the Sil'Dih civilization and their defacto war with Ul'Dah. The Sil'Dih were forced to necromancy in defense of their besieged where they were destroyed from the inside out. However they were able to achieve this (magic/genetic modification/biological) could have impacted the areas and/or the Zombies are remnants of their undead army.

Next we have famous Nym which has a wholly different aesthetic than that of Thanlan.

The floating city again strikes me as a magic experiment gone wrong. With the state of the ruins it seems that perhaps the city was seeking a way to separate themselves from the sea as well as end the conflict with the Amdaporri but it went horribly wrong.

I think that the city of Nym was successful by ripping their cities from the Earth and allowing them to float. This would have been an incredibly strategic option to stop gap any form of besiege of the city. You can't block off a city that you can't attack.

It strikes me odd that the cities are literally on top of each other. Sil'dih being under the plateau that Ul'dah is situated on.

This actually makes sense. Their whole war was over water. Sil'Dih sits in a valley (close to aquifers and the water table) while Ul'Dah would have had a MUCH harder time drilling wells or missing the aquifers completely. I believe Ul'Dah started this war (they have to rely on Sil'Dih for water. With reliance comes weakness and possible exploitation of Ul'Dah by hiking prices of water or creating shortages. It could also have been Ul'Dah not wanting to be in the shadow of Sil'Dih and not wanting to share. Ul'Dah is profitable because of their water supply. They may have had the foresight to launch an offensive for their own selfish motives).

As algae has grown up the side the stonework. Stating east I could see what looked like buildings in the distance. So I decided to investigate and it turned out to be a fence of some kind that ruins all along the Eastern area of the Shroud in this zone.

And can be seen behind the Garlean Caustrum in the area as well.

At first I thought it might be Garlean but it looks wooden and all Garlean aesthetics have used their own types of dark metals. You can also not see it from any other of the Shroud zones. I tried looking from the Quarrymill area but it is not visible there.

Speaking of Garlean there is a lot of Garlean trash in the Shroud near there and in regards to the water level of the Church of the Twelve it seems really low in the Sylphlands areas.

The walls that we see don't seem to be of Garlean origin, but of Elemental/Gridanian origin. Remember the Autumn War. Ala Mihgo launching an offensive against Gridania. It would have made sense for Gridania to put up barriers to protect their territory. These walls could be left over from the war.

The road to Ala Mihgo (now under full Legion control) is situated near the Castrum/Sylphlands. It would be normal to for them to trash the areas with their refuse in the marches back for furlough.

[NoloeTazier]

The city of Sil'dih is actually south of Ul'dah in the Sagoli desert (Ul'dah sealed them in with their zombie apocalypse and then the desert was said to have covered it), the reason you see structures around Ul'dah is because the Sil'dih had a great aqueduct system providing water for their city. After all a city in the desert would need a way to bring in water, similar to how Las Vegas and other cities need water imported. The Sil'dih were able to build this system right under Ul'dah's nose. It's no wonder that Ul'dah then went to war with them, Sil'dih was taking all the water. As Marish-Ten stated though none of those ruins are Allagan, they're Sil'dihn and Belah'dian which currently not much is known of this civilization. As for Nym the floating rocks didn't happen until after the Calamity, the aether from Dalamud interacting strangely with the aether of the land. As for the Sanctuary of the Twelve, I noticed the steps as well and assume(d) that it's water left over from the Sixth Umbral Era, flooding that has not receded.

Also agreed with Moose, since the speculation started when BG finally beat Twintania and this discussion could start...People have been on about Louisoix and Nael van Darnus being "alive." I disagree and have stated my theory on it before, can't find the post so I'll have to type it up again. There's a reason Louisoix and Nael van Darnus say nothing in the CS, they are not alive. What we're seeing is an aetheric projection of memories absorbed by Bahamut. With Nael van Darnus' being absorbed into Dalamud I can only assume, highly speculative, that Louisoix did indeed face a similar fate after all the smile on his face as he was enveloped in white only leads me to believe he had resigned himself to the fate of being killed. So what we have is Bahamut having absorbed Louisoix and Nael van Darnus' aether...now whether their projections are a good or bad thing I cannot say. With Bahamut currently "tied down" this could be 1 of 2 things, Bahamut allowing us to see them or their own "free wills" being able to be projected since Bahamut could not prevent it with his strength. If Bahamut is allowing us these visions, maybe he wants us to see 2 figures we are familiar with and wants us to somehow release him or understand him. On the other hand I think it's more he has no control over it, aether acts in strange ways and the memories are just there whether for good or bad I cannot say. With the NPCs of Eorzea forgetting the 1.0 players it stands to reason that aether affects memories..with this case they're real projections, an Elder Primal deep inside Eorzea/Hydaelyn there should be many aether influences here. So long story short: Louisoix and Nael vna Darnus are dead, their aether memory exists and this is what we're seeing, why we're seeing them remains to be seen with the rest of the "Turns" coming up.

[WellGramarye]

The floating boulders move, albeit slowly. I actually sat and watched them for a time to see if they did. It's not so much a freeze in time (though it looks like the crystal formations around the other Dalamud wreckage's look like time WAS frozen and the chaotic crystal formations were the explosion tails) but that it's suspending matter in zero gravity or has it's own gravitational pull. Fallgourd Float also has (debatably) the most intact piece of Dalamud and this may have something to do with it.

I never noticed movement when I was screen shotting but I digress. The rubble still seems to have a trajectory from the damage to the salvage. If it was just gravity effects there would be no reason for the rubble that is far off to be floating as well; else everything would be floating. There is clearly rubble just fine sitting on the ground.

As for the civilizations, this is an issue with the current state of the game. Since I never played any of pre-ARR there is no way for a player to know or confirm any of that within the game. None of the npcs mention anything about it and the ones that do have dialogue actually conflict with it.