Questions/Theories About Coil (Long Read SPOILERS)

[WellGramarye]

Since we've moved from Coil to Primals in discussion I wanted to bring up a point I noticed the other day. I was checking out the old trailer/opening for 1.0 to show someone who hadn't seen the wonderful echo traveling adventures of derplander and his merry party as well as explaining Midgarsomr's corpse in the middle of Silver Tear when I noticed something towards the end of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...YUHbHL5w#t=339

When Derplander falls after the distruction of the airship (Bismark was it?) a light is released and for a moment you can see the primals Ifrit, and Titan shoot out from the explosion, as well as TWELVE (ish) other beings. This is a really interesting concept and I want to ask has this ever really been discussed in the lore? What was the light that killed Midgarsomr? Why were the primals present then? Can Derplander use the echo to see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?

Also he has a Great Sword. Sad Face. Where's our Great Sword class D:<

[Anonymoose]

Bismark was it?

Agrius

as well as TWELVE (ish) other beings.

It's hard to tell if they meant anything by this. In part of the scene where Ifrit is unfolding, you can freeze frame at different times to see anywhere from 7 to 13 silhouettes, but when they all start flying away, I can make out at least 20 glowing projectiles.

What was the light that killed Midgarsomr?

The use of Magitek was resurrected by a people who couldn't use the magi part of that combo, so they replaced the fuel source with ceruleum, a highly unstable substance. Midgardsormr wrought Agrius to ground, and the buckling of the ship caused the ignition of the ceruleum in the fuel tanks. This set off the enormous explosion, killing Midgardsormr and causing enough damage to destroy the seal under Silvertear Falls.

It is the full nature of the seal that is unknown. Silvertear Falls is the center of the world's aetherial network, so we're told, so what was the point of the seal? To keep the aether there? To keep specific aether there? To surround Xandes' tomb with it? To seal the aether containing the primals' essence within it? Did the breaking of the seal simply imbalance the aether of the realm enough to begin a descent into the Umbal era and this is what allowed the primals to be summoned? Or were the primals in the seal in the first place? We know that the Allag could seal primals - even Ultima could trap them. But I find it interesting that Odin was sealed inside a crystal beneath a spring and all the other primals came out of a shattering seal inside a lake... coincidence?

A lot remains to be seen.

As far as the Primal vs. Elder Primal discussion goes, until we get more clues, I'm just leaving it at "they're from a different era." It's the only thing that we can confirm that Bahamut, Odin, and Belias have in common.

[RolandDebreton]

But I find it interesting that Odin was sealed inside a crystal beneath a spring and all the other primals came out of a shattering seal inside a lake... coincidence?

Oh oh! Primals don't like WATER! Wait a tick......



That's where that son-of-a-gun has been, he keeps getting stuck in the water...... I kid, I kid.



But this is interesting, so far we have primal sealed in an lunar orbital satellite structure, sealed in/beneath Silvertear and then Odin sealed in the crystal of Urth's Gift (the gift is that Urth sealed him - he kept 90k'ing the Allagans while they were trying to xp).

Interesting side note: Since we brought up Silvertear Lake, I just uncovered a tid-bit from my 1.0 notes. In 1.0 we had to run a crystal out to Mor Dhona near the Silvertear shore. Interestingly, it would have put us just north, if not dead-on the Crystal Tower's entrance location (which may be sort of odd if they ever try to reconnect the Western Shroud).

The point of taking this crystal was to deaspect it. By simply burying it and waiting a bit, you could allow that area to purge that crystal of all its elemental properties. Something in Mor Dhona (at least in 1.0) could drain a crystal of its elemental aspect, and its possible that the primals were sealed there and drained of their powers because it served to weaken them, thus allowing the sealing - at least from the point of view of 1.0's storyline. It was not the primals themselves draining the power, they were gone from the area at the point 1572, they had been released in 1562 by the Agrius.

Food for thought, maybe well learn as we climb that tower...

[Anonymoose]

The point of taking this crystal was to deaspect it. By simply burying it and waiting a bit, you could allow that area to purge that crystal of all its elemental properties.

Ready for some confusion? There are aspected crystals, overaspected crystals, deaspected crystals, and unaspected crystals. As far as I can tell...

Aspected crystals are the ones we see the most. They can be aspected towards fire, water, etc.

Overaspected crystals are the orange ones we see where the aetherial network is in chaos. It's the color that the aetherytes turned at the end of 1.0, the color of the Burning Wall. They even seem to be able to go chaotic and start sending damaging shocks everywhere.

Deaspected crystals one shined bright, but are now dark and lifeless. Their essence has been removed.

I've seen blindingly brilliant crystals, darkened dead crystals, and crystals with only a hint of their aspect still glimmering within. That is how I know these deadened crystals were not always so, but once shone as magnificently as any. But why has their light gone out? Why?

However, when we went to Mor Dhona, we buried lightning aspected crystals, and the nature of Mor Dhona unaspected them.

Why do I think they're different?

Collecting unaspected crystals? How interesting... Though it just might work. While such crystals are practically useless to a crafter who seeks to harness the elemental aspect of the aether, many of the beast tribes consider unaspected crystals to be of a "purer" state, and therefore better suited to their rituals. Unfortunately, there is only one place you can obtain unaspected crystals, and that is in the heart of Mor Dhona. The land there has the mysterious quality of draining the element from anything with which it remains in contact for an extended period of time. If you were to bury a lightning crystal there, I don't suppose it would take long for it to transform into the item you need. Mor Dhona is an old, old place that is mentioned in the myths and legends of the beast tribes and the five races alike. While the stories vary, all contain references to a great force that slumbers there - though whether it be a force for good or evil depends on whom you ask. Could it be this force that draws the elemental aspect from crystals?

Why would the beast tribes want darkened, dead crystals to summon their gods? They wouldn't.

The massive confluence of aether in Mor Dhona, unaspected by whatever's up with the place, can even case these crystals to justgrow spontaneously, as well. They used to be everywhere - you can see them in the rich green Mor Dhona where Midgardsormr fell. You can see them in the dead wasteland of 1.0. You can see them there now in the areas that aren't overaspeted. Seek out a Miner levequest called "Crystal Mess" and you can mine an "overgrown" unaspected crystal for your very own.

What's the point? No idea.

All I know is that even SE can get them mixed up at times. In the hard mode of the White Raven battle, you had to start out by building a party set-up focused on surviving his opening Megaflare so that you could farm deaspected clusters from falling meteor debris. These could be crafted into lunar curtains, which you could then use on legitimate runs of the fight to give you a massive defensive boost during Megaflares, freeing your party set up and cooldowns to be focused on winning. The item description of Lunar Curtains say they're made from unaspected crystals.

Anyway, just saying, don't let your theory get away from you so soon. If it truly was the case that deaspected crystals were dark and lifeless, but unaspected ones were bright and neutral, you'd have quite a house of cards.

[Marishi-Ten]

I love fringe theory speculation, and I'ma let you finish, but Midgardsormr has been theorized to be a primal, and the devs said no. And then the Waning of the Sixth Sun bluray called him an elder primal by mistake, and the devs said hell no. Whatever he was, he wasn't that. (Hint: He was a dragon lord)

It was worth a shot. Haha

When Derplander falls after the distruction of the airship (Bismark was it?) a light is released and for a moment you can see the primals Ifrit, and Titan shoot out from the explosion, as well as TWELVE (ish) other beings. This is a really interesting concept and I want to ask has this ever really been discussed in the lore? What was the light that killed Midgarsomr? Why were the primals present then? Can Derplander use the echo to see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?

That would have been the Ceruleum tanks rupturing and exploding. Much like our oil, it's unstable and prone to be flammable. Oil is referred to as the "blood of the land". Ceruleum, I believe, is concentrated and condensed Aether that can be used as a fuel source (oh hai Mako).

The bigger question for me is:
There is wreckage of the Agrius all over present day Mor Dhona but there was none 5 years ago. 1.0 Mor Dhona had no wreckage on the shore and the water level seemed, lower in 1.0 showing more of the Agrius. Why is there pieces all over the place now and not before?

P.S Kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch because they like to cut the roofs of their mouths.

[Anonymoose]

There is wreckage of the Agrius all over present day Mor Dhona but there was none 5 years ago. 1.0 Mor Dhona had no wreckage on the shore and the water level seemed, lower in 1.0 showing more of the Agrius. Why is there pieces all over the place now and not before?

Now that you mention it, Mor Dhona really is becoming more and more of a wasteland and trash dump. I believe that the metal all over Mor Dhona, however, is Dalamud debris.

[Brannigan]

Now that you mention it, Mor Dhona really is becoming more and more of a wasteland and trash dump. I believe that the metal all over Mor Dhona, however, is Dalamud debris.

One of the quests out of Revenant's Toll has you collecting cermet from the wreckage for that Roegadyn female, so at least some of the stuff spread across Mor Dhona is from airships.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Heart_of_Cermet

http://xivdb.com/?quest/66536/Heart-of-Cermet

As for why we can see it now, but couldn't in 1.0 - I'm willing to just chalk that up to 1.0's lack of everything. Either that or it was buried before.

[Darksword]

Two things not yet mentioned I feel it might be worth contributing.


1: As we have learned from Leviathan and the Whorleater, and to a lesser extent Garuda, corrupted crystals have an effect on Primals. Namely they can disrupt or even disable their control over aether. And what is Bahamut's physical body down in the coil almost completely covered in? Could that be by design?

2: If Elder primals are, as their names would imply, the oldest and most powerful of the primals, then it might stand to reason that they had to be called into being by older, more powerful beings themselves. I also find it unique that there are specifically TWO such Elder primals. Coincidentally the game also has TWO very old, very powerful beings in its lore: Hydalaen and Zodiark.

Suppose for the sake of argument that Zodiark itself "summoned" Bahamut. That would explain:

The Ascians fascination with him.
His lack of need for crystals or worshippers.
His unrelenting hostility towards Eorzea.
His penchant for causing GLOBAL mass destruction, as Hydalaen HERSELF is his primary enemy.
His singling out of Louisoix - Hydalaens former primary ally as the Archon.

Furthermore, this would lend credence to the theory that the crystal of his heart is, or is a piece of, Zodiark himself. SE has a notably similar event in their company lore - Yu Yevon, a magical entity who summoned the colossal and destructive being Sin to serve as his body and protector.

So what about Odin?

Well it would stand to reason that is Bahamut were summoned by Zodiark, that Odin would have been summoned by Hydalaen. Lets look at some piece of that puzzle:

What is Hydalaen's modus operandi? She:

Chooses one person to be her crystal bearer.
Empowers that person to stand against the darkness (Zodiark and his powers).
The chosen person becomes extraordinarily powerful (to the point that our player character "makes sport of killing gods" as Merlwyb phrased it)
Odin makes an implication of his present or former humanity.
He takes the mortal form of whoever killed him last.

That last line there seems to be the strongest indication of my theory. What if rather than a mere game mechanic (bragging rights of the kill), the change of his form is actually LORE based. A sort of warning. "I become like you" can also imply "You become like me." Or "In some unnamed way, we are, were, or will be alike."

Assuming this is true, then it might fit that Odin was once some incredibly ancient champion of Hydalaen herself. Perhaps initially a Crystal Bearer. In order not to lose her champion after his mortal death, Hydalaen herself summoned him back as what we would call an Elder Primal. One that would remain sealed in a place of Hydalaen's natural splendor (the lush forests of Gridania), and be released to defend the world in the event of either great catastrophe, or perhaps in reaction to Bahamut specifically. Again, there is SE precedence for such a being: WEAPON. So why would it be that Odin merely wanders around, waiting to be fought? It might simply be that, as we are so often told, Hydalaen is weak and the last of her strength is waning. Odin was released by the Calamity, but she is now too weak and unable to control him in his Primal state. So she needed a NEW champion. One who could act of their own free will, not needing her power to control.

I'm also willing to bet, that like how Bahamut has a physical form that is sealed away (in the Coil), and a "manifestation" form (what was sealed within Dalamud), we have only too seen Odin's manifestation. Somewhere, probably within the Shroud, is his physical body, entombed by Hydaelaen.

[Catapult]

Odin was released by the Calamity, but she is now too weak and unable to control him in his Primal state. So she needed a NEW champion. One who could act of their own free will, not needing her power to control.

/hands Darksword a Darksteelfoil hat

Welcome to the club. Crazy theory, probably with enough holes in it to fall apart, but with a good amount of ideas to springboard off.

On the subject of holes, Hydaelyn chose herself a hero of light before the calamity released Odin (v1.0 Warriors of Light), so that doesn't quite fit. But it doesn't utterly destroy your ideas either.