Is anyone else bothered by the lack of incentive for mediocre players to improve?

[Judge_Xero]

I would like to share a scenario that happened to me on Titan HM,

My character was a Level 50 Paladin,Was acting DPS for my relic, Probably one notch undergeared......

Really all that matters is that your FC thought you were worth it. That's great you think of it as an opportunity to improve rather than just being happy you got carried.

[Ishmachiah]

I don't like WOW because WOW killed the genre. Now, you cannot "fail" your char (in some games, you had to put your stats yourself without any possible reset, same goes for your skill tree), levelling was mostly grinding, but you had to build a decent char and do it with a group. Now, a "raid" is X people. Not X-1 or X+1, but X. In some games, crafting was a REAL job, and levelling it was hard (or expensive) but rewarding. Geez. I could continue for a week. I don't dislike the "new" MMO's, I just dislike Blizzard for killing a genre.

WoW remade the genre, it did not kill it. The games that embody the genre you believe MMOs should be are still online right now. Take your own advice that you gave to the OP and uninstall. Go back to those games that are stuck in 2003 and leave us who live in 2014 where we are.

[givemeraptors]

Frankly, I would consider the OPs argument more valid if people in this game actually took the time to help new or inexperienced players improve. So many people using the duty roulette treat it like a loot pinata and harass the newbies. I've just started gearing/using my PLD in high level dungeons and the amount of flack I take is ridiculous. I never had to deal with such rude people as a DPS, even when I made obvious DPS mistakes like eating too many AOEs and straining the healer.

Today I spent over an hour coaching and being coached (as a first time tanker) through Pharos Sirius. Did we clear it? No. But by the time we abandoned the duty both me and another DPS were much improved at our respective jobs. Before you start talking about 'mediocre' players leeching off of the work of pros, take a look at how you play the game and whether you're contributing to other's experience or simply harassing them and making everything worse. If you're not going to take the time to help others improve, you have no standing to criticize bad players. It's one thing if you're attempting to be helpful and people shut you down. However, the majority of the time if you mention something politely players will respond in kind.

[Lyrro]

Today I spent over an hour coaching and being coached (as a first time tanker) through Pharos Sirius. Did we clear it? No. But by the time we abandoned the duty both me and another DPS were much improved at our respective jobs. Before you start talking about 'mediocre' players leeching off of the work of pros, take a look at how you play the game and whether you're contributing to other's experience or simply harassing them and making everything worse. If you're not going to take the time to help others improve, you have no standing to criticize bad players. It's one thing if you're attempting to be helpful and people shut you down. However, the majority of the time if you mention something politely players will respond in kind.

Had a couple guys last night ragequit during Garuda ex rather than admit they didn't know what they were doing. We asked at the beginning of the fight if everyone knew the fight, not impolitely, we offered to instruct if anyone didn't, and when noone responded we obviously assumed everyone knew it and when we did the readiness check everyone said they were ready. We wiped it before the sisters spawned for the first time because our healer got 1hko-ed by garuda at her first attack. Okay, mistakes happen, right. Second attempt, we made it past that part and wiped at the sisters phase because the tank didn't grab suprana who decided she didnt' like our healers. Again, mistakes happen, right? We try again, we make it all the way to the first vortex phase and someone immediately kills spiny. It's pretty obvious at this point that some of our guys are new, so we ask again and offer to instruct anyone who's new, noone responds. We figure we'll give it one more shot and we wipe before the first sisters phase again.

I understand where you're coming from with your argument, and I agree with it for the most part, I just want to point out that player improvement requires effort on both parts. Players who "wing it" and get the party wiped over and over because they refuse to admit they don't know what they're doing, even when people are offering to teach them, are a big reason that people these days are so hostile toward new people. Sad to say, the story I've told isn't an uncommon occurrence, and I've seen a lot of parties wipe at easy spots because someone did not want to admit that they didn't know the fight or they watched a youtube video once and think they're a pro.

Being a healer, I've seen a lot of hate, especially back in my AK days when people would rage at me because I refused to use the tree method against the first boss or because the tank would die while doing a WP speedrun even though he was soul binding crafting gear while trying to do a speedrun. People are going to hate on people, it's a sad but true, but the people who would wipe a party rather than ask for advice are just as bad as the people who would rage on a new guy for not knowing his role. I guess I'm the odd man out though, just for the fact that I hate seeing my party members die just because someone didn't want to risk bruising their ego by asking for advice.

[Huntington]

If we're going to be honest here, there's a slight issue with that sort of thing, and the game just overall being easier. XIV hands gear, weapons, items, and even Gil to you on a plentiful enough basis that if you go look for it, you'll get what you need. It's extremely easy to get around, you can have your own mount given to you within the first 10 hours of play, and travel isn't a chore when you can Sprint at any time you want. People complain that XIV can't be compared to XI, but for what reasons? The game has existed for over a decade and is the best selling title in the series, mainly because of subscriptions, but people still found it worth shelling out more money to play. The game was inherently more difficult because it was outdated, but still had content and additions being added to it.

XIV is modernized and made more easy because of it. Teleport was a White Mage ability then, Sprint or Flee a Ninja ability, when everyone can have access to two things that help you get around the world easier, that instantly cuts down most of the time you would spend on fetch quests and getting places by half. This trivializes the game to an almost unbearable amount. The game is still fun and engaging, but when it isn't that difficult to begin with, we're beating a dead horse. It was made more accessible to new players to be more welcoming than XI, of which I myself appreciated. After a month or two of XI, I did start to grow bored and annoyed with it, despite all the things I had to do, because simple tasks were made annoyingly time-consuming.

If we want this game to be more successful in the long run, we might have to bear with an actual overhaul that makes it more challenging. Anyone can pick up and play this without much work, and while that's welcoming to players new to the genre, the game seems almost inconsequential sometimes because of it.

[Alcyon1]

WoW remade the genre, it did not kill it. The games that embody the genre you believe MMOs should be are still online right now. Take your own advice that you gave to the OP and uninstall. Go back to those games that are stuck in 2003 and leave us who live in 2014 where we are.

Learn to read, please do. I said

I don't dislike the "new" MMO's

, but you skipped this sentence. The new "old-genre" MMO's are now P2W, you can guess why. I wonder why I'm answering you, you skipped school so much and now you fail to understand a feeling written in a simple sentence. I just can't accept the overkill of a complete genre.

[Staris]

Today I spent over an hour coaching and being coached (as a first time tanker) through Pharos Sirius. Did we clear it? No.

Over an hour and didn't clear it?

that sounds horrible ... and that is why I leave if i get it in roulette. The risk/reward is too low, the 30 minute timer + a 15 min manor or WP roulette is less time spent. (Sorry I don't have unlimited time to spend carry horrible players).

And the fact this is the case is sad, because the the place is very easy.

[Sarepean]

Just my two cents, but there is definitely an issue. Like the OP and others have noted, other games have a clear distinction between the gear (and the item level of the gear) earned in a raid and the gear earned in groupable content (such as WP/CT/AK, etc).

I am all for a third tomestone type, but the tomestone type needs to come from raid level content that is unnerfed. This provides the incentive for upper level players to continue grinding even when they're not pulling items or can't pull an item because they're having to play on a class that can't "Need" the item they are going for.

In addition, give raid level players new content a few weeks in advance of nerfing the old content. Otherwise, we will have an influx of players that have the gear from T5, potentially clouding the ability of raid level parties to tell who is actually qualified (by the skill of having beat T5) from doing T6.

[Sarepean]

And, yes, we do need some kind of a practice mode.


I don't mind teaching. I ran Ultima for four hours last night and welcomed anyone who wanted to go. I pulled exactly 0 items from it.

But, sometimes, I need to be using my time to actually get gear. And it's those times that spending hours trying to find a good party finder, trying to put together a skilled party on my own, or even trying to duty finder the fight repeatedly are most aggravating.

[Zarzak]

WoW remade the genre, it did not kill it. The games that embody the genre you believe MMOs should be are still online right now. Take your own advice that you gave to the OP and uninstall. Go back to those games that are stuck in 2003 and leave us who live in 2014 where we are.

By remade it you mean turned it into a genre that rewards the lowest common denominator and teaches us that if you cry loud enough you will always get your way?