AOE Toggle Needs to GO

[Corrderio]

Yeah... no.

[Tibian]

Mob positioning is 'part' of the issue, especially when a level 30 monster is around a level 50... but that's definitely not going to fix the terribleness of the AOE toggle. With any AOE you carry the risk of aggroing monsters beside you: that's a given. The issue is that the AOE toggle causes inefficiency. I've had several times when I want to switch between single target DPS, and then healing AOE to prevent people from dying. Unfortunately the AOE toggle has a delay, and quite honestly it doesn't function as fast as it should. I actually have to wait to press Z rather than instantly press Z and go to town. Then, in the event that I do succeed in dealing with the terrible toggle feature, I still have to press enter to make the spell activate. That too adds another 1-2 seconds to casting. 1-2 seconds is crucial to someone who is on the brink of death. That's not human error, that's simply a barrier of dealing with UI mechanics that don't function as well as they could or should.

The counter argument to the evaluation of revamping or even looking at the AOE toggle is that "I like the AOE Toggle and your argument is flawed because I like it!" Is mainly what I hear. The fact that the original post has 30 likes alone means that there is an entire community out there that finds the AOE toggle is inefficient.

There are valid points to each side of keeping and altering the toggle and I think ultimately the dev team needs to address the issue with the battle update or shortly after upon determining how the battle system/fixes work.

The dev team continually puts out messages that say they want to make the game fun, exciting, and challenging. The current AOE toggle is definitely a feature that is preventing them from achieving such.

Isn't there already one-button casting in the way of the number keys that corresponds to to the slot? Unless they changed the way it works since I last played on keyboard, I thought the 1-0 keys executes the spell on the current target, skipping the sub-target cursor. All they need to do is make aoe toggle key (z by default) work all the time even when you don't have a target selected.

1-0 does execute the spell on the current target, but you still have to press enter after you press the spell due to the aoe toggle, which is what is causing the problems and inefficiency.

The removal of the AOE toggle feature in that particular instance is what I particularly would prefer. I dislike having to press enter after I have already selected the spell I want to cast. It adds an unnecessary input that is a given when my target is already selected.

It would greatly improve the battle experience, (if they still want to keep the toggle,) by removing the requirement of pressing enter after each spell is selected. In addition to that, they'd have to make it so the AOE toggle would be controlled by a keybind, most likely Z, and then just have a status thing that says "AOE Enabled" on the side of the screen. But then herein lies the debate of most UI problems, is that its an 'unnecessary keybind and pads have a limited number of buttons they can bind to. Which again brings up the discussion of developing PS3/PC UI's independently of one another... which is the main source of nearly all UI discussions because keyboard and mouse has been and will always be more efficient than a pad.

[odintius]

I think the current aoe feature is fine could it be approved sure. I'm not seeing the point of this thread, either your plan is to attack multiple target's or you don't simple concept. If your concern is over hitting multiple enemy's then I would recommend keeping it off until it's needed. I use the controller and keyboard because I use it to chat and the Z button isn't very far from the controller that's is in my hands.

[normalforce]

Mob positioning is 'part' of the issue, especially when a level 30 monster is around a level 50... but that's definitely not going to fix the terribleness of the AOE toggle. With any AOE you carry the risk of aggroing monsters beside you: that's a given. The issue is that the AOE toggle causes inefficiency. I've had several times when I want to switch between single target DPS, and then healing AOE to prevent people from dying. Unfortunately the AOE toggle has a delay, and quite honestly it doesn't function as fast as it should. I actually have to wait to press Z rather than instantly press Z and go to town. Then, in the event that I do succeed in dealing with the terrible toggle feature, I still have to press enter to make the spell activate. That too adds another 1-2 seconds to casting. 1-2 seconds is crucial to someone who is on the brink of death. That's not human error, that's simply a barrier of dealing with UI mechanics that don't function as well as they could or should.

To avoid the AoE toggle step altogether, use a macro. Guaranteed never to miss those AoE cures in the future.

• /aoe on
• /ac "Cure II" <me>
• /aoe off

[Reaux]

To avoid the AoE toggle step altogether, use a macro. Guaranteed never to miss those AoE cures in the future.

• /aoe on
• /ac "Cure II" <me>
• /aoe off

This only partially solves the problem. Yes, I can always AoE my cures and get a majority of my party: but this doesn't solve the issue of the person standing directly next to me not getting cured or buffed because they were a step outside of the range because my guesstimation of range was slightly off. The range of the AoE's seems kind of arbitrary in when they behave as they should.

Sometimes my "fan/cone" for Thaum works perfectly, other times it works more like a line that hits anything in my peripheral AND directly ahead. Admittedly I have not played Conjurer much so I have no idea if Conjurers have the same issue where the "circle" appears to change size on occasion even when casting the same spell. I love the ability to toggle, but there could be some refinement and at minimum a visual cue could make things easier without needing to change much else.

[Cendres]

I think the current aoe feature is fine could it be approved sure. I'm not seeing the point of this thread, either your plan is to attack multiple target's or you don't simple concept. If your concern is over hitting multiple enemy's then I would recommend keeping it off until it's needed. I use the controller and keyboard because I use it to chat and the Z button isn't very far from the controller that's is in my hands.

Try to play a healer that wants to help with some nukes. Seriously bad idea with drastic consequences if you misfire your AOE toggle....

The current system is too simple and a serious pain in the neck for magic users.

Sometimes my "fan/cone" for Thaum works perfectly, other times it works more like a line that hits anything in my peripheral AND directly ahead. Admittedly I have not played Conjurer much so I have no idea if Conjurers have the same issue where the "circle" appears to change size on occasion even when casting the same spell. I love the ability to toggle, but there could be some refinement and at minimum a visual cue could make things easier without needing to change much else.

If I miss people I run to where they are and recast.... :S So i do a lot of running around trying not to get hit while making sure to heal as many people as possible...

[Rowyne]

mmos before this havent had the toggle

SEVERAL rpgs have though, and thats why people say its been done in the past

Are we seriously justifying this because it's been done in standalone RPGs?

If we're really going to go there, games like FFIV didn't stick an AoE confirmation in your face every time. You hit left on the directional pad. It was single target by default, and you had to tell it to AoE. You weren't forced to choose with a Windows Vista style confirm with a popup on every spell.

We're already tried to turn FFXIV into mind-numbingly slow turned-based combat with the stamina bar and manual attack, and it's been determined that it doesn't work. Not only because there are too many unpredictable factors with playing an MMO vs an offline game, and repeatedly spamming an action is not fun.

Just like this, the AoE toggle is inefficient spam and takes extra time to deal with.

I would much rather see the spells split out, but if that isn't going to happen, then at the very least the mechanics of it need to be revised:

1. Make the AoE toggle a static widget we can turn on and off with a mouse click as needed, instead of a confirmation before every spell
2. Adjust MP so that when in AoE mode, spells cost more to cast

The claiming system and other things are being worked on right now, so I won't necessarily mention that as an issue.

The AoE mechanic, as it pertains to the UI, needs to be streamlined so that it's not frustrating spam for those of us who are full time casters. Plus, it will help to make better choices and get those heals off quickly without fighting with the UI.

[odintius]

[QUOTE=Cendres;189344]Try to play a healer that wants to help with some nukes. Seriously bad idea with drastic consequences if you misfire your AOE toggle....

The current system is too simple and a serious pain in the neck for magic users.

Stand by comment reread first sentence could be approved upon not saying it might not have any issue's but sounds like user error.

[Rowyne]

Tibian, I wholeheartedly agree with your post. I've pulled out and bolded areas I felt are most crucial to this argument.

The issue is that the AOE toggle causes inefficiency. I've had several times when I want to switch between single target DPS, and then healing AOE to prevent people from dying. Unfortunately the AOE toggle has a delay, and quite honestly it doesn't function as fast as it should. I actually have to wait to press Z rather than instantly press Z and go to town. Then, in the event that I do succeed in dealing with the terrible toggle feature, I still have to press enter to make the spell activate. That too adds another 1-2 seconds to casting. 1-2 seconds is crucial to someone who is on the brink of death. That's not human error, that's simply a barrier of dealing with UI mechanics that don't function as well as they could or should.

The dev team continually puts out messages that say they want to make the game fun, exciting, and challenging. The current AOE toggle is definitely a feature that is preventing them from achieving such.

1-0 does execute the spell on the current target, but you still have to press enter after you press the spell due to the aoe toggle, which is what is causing the problems and inefficiency.

The removal of the AOE toggle feature in that particular instance is what I particularly would prefer. I dislike having to press enter after I have already selected the spell I want to cast. It adds an unnecessary input that is a given when my target is already selected.

It would greatly improve the battle experience, (if they still want to keep the toggle,) by removing the requirement of pressing enter after each spell is selected.

And.... as a secondary point, I couldn't agree with this more:

Which again brings up the discussion of developing PS3/PC UI's independently of one another... which is the main source of nearly all UI discussions because keyboard and mouse has been and will always be more efficient than a pad.

Dual UI development is sorely needed.

[Rowyne]

Try to play a healer that wants to help with some nukes. Seriously bad idea with drastic consequences if you misfire your AOE toggle....

The current system is too simple and a serious pain in the neck for magic users.

Agreed.
/10char

To avoid the AoE toggle step altogether, use a macro. Guaranteed never to miss those AoE cures in the future.

Macros are simply workarounds. If we have to live our lives by macros, then something is broken.