AOE Toggle Needs to GO

[Chory]

AOE Toggle needs to be removed. Terrible terrible terrible concept.

Agree.
Instead of just FIRE with action slot cost 3 and impractical toggle button, there should be FIRE w/ slot cost 1 and FIRAGA w/ slot cost 2. FIRAGA should consume MUCH more MP too. Same thing with tier 2 spells, with Cure/Sac, with buffs, etc.

Seriously, what was wrong with -ga spells in previous FF games? Ive never heard anyone complaining about it.

[Elexia]

Seriously, what was wrong with -ga spells in previous FF games? Ive never heard anyone complaining about it.

"We want this game as different as possible from FFXI."

[Chory]

"We want this game as different as possible from FFXI."

I stand corrected - no one except SE staff complained about -ga spells.

People love it - let's change it!

[Zuellni]

Isn't there already one-button casting in the way of the number keys that corresponds to to the slot? Unless they changed the way it works since I last played on keyboard, I thought the 1-0 keys executes the spell on the current target, skipping the sub-target cursor. All they need to do is make aoe toggle key (z by default) work all the time even when you don't have a target selected.

[Corrderio]

Yeah... no.

[Tibian]

Mob positioning is 'part' of the issue, especially when a level 30 monster is around a level 50... but that's definitely not going to fix the terribleness of the AOE toggle. With any AOE you carry the risk of aggroing monsters beside you: that's a given. The issue is that the AOE toggle causes inefficiency. I've had several times when I want to switch between single target DPS, and then healing AOE to prevent people from dying. Unfortunately the AOE toggle has a delay, and quite honestly it doesn't function as fast as it should. I actually have to wait to press Z rather than instantly press Z and go to town. Then, in the event that I do succeed in dealing with the terrible toggle feature, I still have to press enter to make the spell activate. That too adds another 1-2 seconds to casting. 1-2 seconds is crucial to someone who is on the brink of death. That's not human error, that's simply a barrier of dealing with UI mechanics that don't function as well as they could or should.

The counter argument to the evaluation of revamping or even looking at the AOE toggle is that "I like the AOE Toggle and your argument is flawed because I like it!" Is mainly what I hear. The fact that the original post has 30 likes alone means that there is an entire community out there that finds the AOE toggle is inefficient.

There are valid points to each side of keeping and altering the toggle and I think ultimately the dev team needs to address the issue with the battle update or shortly after upon determining how the battle system/fixes work.

The dev team continually puts out messages that say they want to make the game fun, exciting, and challenging. The current AOE toggle is definitely a feature that is preventing them from achieving such.

Isn't there already one-button casting in the way of the number keys that corresponds to to the slot? Unless they changed the way it works since I last played on keyboard, I thought the 1-0 keys executes the spell on the current target, skipping the sub-target cursor. All they need to do is make aoe toggle key (z by default) work all the time even when you don't have a target selected.

1-0 does execute the spell on the current target, but you still have to press enter after you press the spell due to the aoe toggle, which is what is causing the problems and inefficiency.

The removal of the AOE toggle feature in that particular instance is what I particularly would prefer. I dislike having to press enter after I have already selected the spell I want to cast. It adds an unnecessary input that is a given when my target is already selected.

It would greatly improve the battle experience, (if they still want to keep the toggle,) by removing the requirement of pressing enter after each spell is selected. In addition to that, they'd have to make it so the AOE toggle would be controlled by a keybind, most likely Z, and then just have a status thing that says "AOE Enabled" on the side of the screen. But then herein lies the debate of most UI problems, is that its an 'unnecessary keybind and pads have a limited number of buttons they can bind to. Which again brings up the discussion of developing PS3/PC UI's independently of one another... which is the main source of nearly all UI discussions because keyboard and mouse has been and will always be more efficient than a pad.

[normalforce]

Mob positioning is 'part' of the issue, especially when a level 30 monster is around a level 50... but that's definitely not going to fix the terribleness of the AOE toggle. With any AOE you carry the risk of aggroing monsters beside you: that's a given. The issue is that the AOE toggle causes inefficiency. I've had several times when I want to switch between single target DPS, and then healing AOE to prevent people from dying. Unfortunately the AOE toggle has a delay, and quite honestly it doesn't function as fast as it should. I actually have to wait to press Z rather than instantly press Z and go to town. Then, in the event that I do succeed in dealing with the terrible toggle feature, I still have to press enter to make the spell activate. That too adds another 1-2 seconds to casting. 1-2 seconds is crucial to someone who is on the brink of death. That's not human error, that's simply a barrier of dealing with UI mechanics that don't function as well as they could or should.

To avoid the AoE toggle step altogether, use a macro. Guaranteed never to miss those AoE cures in the future.

• /aoe on
• /ac "Cure II" <me>
• /aoe off

[Reaux]

To avoid the AoE toggle step altogether, use a macro. Guaranteed never to miss those AoE cures in the future.

• /aoe on
• /ac "Cure II" <me>
• /aoe off

This only partially solves the problem. Yes, I can always AoE my cures and get a majority of my party: but this doesn't solve the issue of the person standing directly next to me not getting cured or buffed because they were a step outside of the range because my guesstimation of range was slightly off. The range of the AoE's seems kind of arbitrary in when they behave as they should.

Sometimes my "fan/cone" for Thaum works perfectly, other times it works more like a line that hits anything in my peripheral AND directly ahead. Admittedly I have not played Conjurer much so I have no idea if Conjurers have the same issue where the "circle" appears to change size on occasion even when casting the same spell. I love the ability to toggle, but there could be some refinement and at minimum a visual cue could make things easier without needing to change much else.

[Rowyne]

Tibian, I wholeheartedly agree with your post. I've pulled out and bolded areas I felt are most crucial to this argument.

The issue is that the AOE toggle causes inefficiency. I've had several times when I want to switch between single target DPS, and then healing AOE to prevent people from dying. Unfortunately the AOE toggle has a delay, and quite honestly it doesn't function as fast as it should. I actually have to wait to press Z rather than instantly press Z and go to town. Then, in the event that I do succeed in dealing with the terrible toggle feature, I still have to press enter to make the spell activate. That too adds another 1-2 seconds to casting. 1-2 seconds is crucial to someone who is on the brink of death. That's not human error, that's simply a barrier of dealing with UI mechanics that don't function as well as they could or should.

The dev team continually puts out messages that say they want to make the game fun, exciting, and challenging. The current AOE toggle is definitely a feature that is preventing them from achieving such.

1-0 does execute the spell on the current target, but you still have to press enter after you press the spell due to the aoe toggle, which is what is causing the problems and inefficiency.

The removal of the AOE toggle feature in that particular instance is what I particularly would prefer. I dislike having to press enter after I have already selected the spell I want to cast. It adds an unnecessary input that is a given when my target is already selected.

It would greatly improve the battle experience, (if they still want to keep the toggle,) by removing the requirement of pressing enter after each spell is selected.

And.... as a secondary point, I couldn't agree with this more:

Which again brings up the discussion of developing PS3/PC UI's independently of one another... which is the main source of nearly all UI discussions because keyboard and mouse has been and will always be more efficient than a pad.

Dual UI development is sorely needed.

[Zuellni]

1-0 does execute the spell on the current target, but you still have to press enter after you press the spell due to the aoe toggle, which is what is causing the problems and inefficiency.

The removal of the AOE toggle feature in that particular instance is what I particularly would prefer. I dislike having to press enter after I have already selected the spell I want to cast. It adds an unnecessary input that is a given when my target is already selected.

Ah, so it's the pressing enter after clicking the spell that bugs you. From my understanding, removing the aoe toggle won't get rid of that extra enter press. If you want that gone, SE would have to take out the ability to target someone else with a spell besides the target you have main lock on.

The current system as we're all familiar with goes:
1. Select a target to bring up abilities list
2. Select a spell
3. Confirm target for the chosen spell with the option of toggling aoe.

If we wanted the extra enter press to confirm target to be removed we'd have to change the system to something like:

1. Select or change to target which you would like to cast the spell
2. Use the spell

The second example would be one less step, but we'd have to select a different target before casting. This is fine for keyboard and mouse since you can change the main target by clicking on them but for pad users, this will add more time between casts since we'd have to deselect the current target and cycle to the one we want before casting.

Take note that with auto-attack in the works, it's likely that it will be dependant on having the target selected for auto-attack to stay active. This means that if something like the 2nd example were used, a paladin with heal/support abilities would have to stop their attacks, and select a party member before using their ability since the secondary target selection would be removed to get rid of the extra Enter press. To get around that, SE would have to make specific abilities bring up a secondary target selection, which will bring us back to paladins complaining about an extra Enter press as opposed to mages.

Keeping in mind that it's actually the secondary target selection, not aoe toggle, forcing you to press Enter after selecting a spell, what would you propose for a possible spell/ability use procedure?