Scrap current classes or keep as is?

[Shai]

Also there is no evidence yet that Paladin will only use Sword & Shield.

That may be true, but this has not been said. It has only been said that Gladiator unlocks Paladin, not that you can't use it on other classes. I'd like to be a mage/Paladin personally, or a Gladiator/Thief but who knows in the end what it will really be until they give us more info or hands-on experience with the new job system. (Good luck with that, though).

It just furthers that SE needs to be more transparent with what they know to be true and less cryptic and mysterious to fuel these rampant speculation (aka waste of time) threads. They won't any time soon, though, so rampant speculate away my friends because heaven knows there isn't enough to do in the actual game to keep you busy and off the forums. That's the true tragedy.

[Vanguard319]

Actually if that were true it would make your argument moot.

I happen to agree with you. XI is a closed chapter in my life and I was looking for something new and fresh. Every day XIV is being remade into XI-2 and it's driving me away.

...but you can't say the majority of people don't want XI-2, then turn around and say the majority of people quit because they wanted XI-2 and didn't get it. Totally invalidates your original assertion. ^^ Sorry. Stay focused and fight the good fight!

thx for pointing that out, I've been caught in a fallacy for once. I can only blame being tired of trying to show the moonbats just how bad thier ideas are.

In the immortal words of the red mage: "thier very prescence drains INT."

[AlexiaKidd]

Also there is no evidence yet that Paladin will only use Sword & Shield.

That may be true, but this has not been said. It has only been said that Gladiator unlocks Paladin, not that you can't use it on other classes. I'd like to be a mage/Paladin personally, or a Gladiator/Thief but who knows in the end what it will really be until they give us more info or hands-on experience with the new job system. (Good luck with that, though).

It just furthers that SE needs to be more transparent with what they know to be true and less cryptic and mysterious to fuel these rampant speculation (aka waste of time) threads. They won't any time soon, though, so rampant speculate away my friends because heaven knows there isn't enough to do in the actual game to keep you busy and off the forums. That's the true tragedy.

I admit my biggest beef with what we know is the whole tied to one weapon style thing, if I am a PLD I want to use a variety of weapons, not just sword and shield forever. I actually came up with this the other day in another thread of how I would like things to work within the bounds of the current system. I'll ost it here but it is pretty long ; ;


So I thought I would post this here as I thought another thread dealing with idea's for the job system would not go down so well.

Anyway here are my idea's of how I would like the Job system to play out, it's not ideal as for me I would like a complete rebuild but this idea uses the idea of the Job and Class system.

I suppose the easiest way to describe my idea would be to think of it as the Job/Sub Job system present in FFXI but instead it would be Job/Class with Class being a sub job of sorts but there are a few tricks in here that would be new.

Firstly when you do not have a Job selected ie PLD, BLM, WHM and so on your Job is ADV (Adventurer). So when you start the game your Job is ADV and ADV is a vanilla class that allows your to cross class like you do now but has no special bonus traits that other Jobs have. When your ADV ranks up you get stats to assign how you wish just like other like the other Jobs so you can build your custom Job for soloing as you can now. Again this would use the system we have now only EXP would be used to Level up your ADV Job and SP would be for your Class.

Now for the other Jobs, for arguments sake lets say at Level 30 you can unlock Jobs for the Classes. So we rank up our GLA to level 30 and unlock PLD. Now PLD as a Job comes with certain traits, spells and skills. For example:

PLD Traits - Defence Bonus 1, Undead Killer 1, Resist Sleep 1, Shield Mastery 1 (Auto Guard)

PLD Skills - Invincible (2hr), Rampart, Phalanx, Provoke, Aegis Boon, Shield Bash, Cover.

PLD Spells - Cure, Protect, Shell, Banish, Flash, Holy.

The PLD will unlock new traits, spells and skills as by completing quests. To unlock these quests you will have to reach a certain Level with GLA so in essence your PLD Level is tied to your GLA level. So if my GLA is Level 50 my PLD is also Level 50 and I can undertake whatever quests I have unlocked to gain new/upgraded traits, spells and skills.

Now for the science bit ^^

If I have my job set as PLD and my class as GLA, I will have access to all my GLA skills and weapon skills as well and any that crossover will receive a boost. So like Provoke could have a shortened recast time and increase the Enmity generated, things like that.

However, if I were to equip a Lance I would then be PLD/LNC, I would no longer have access to those extra GLA skills and weapon skills but all of my PLD traits, spells and skills would remain. I would however have access to LNC skills and abilities. If I was a Level 50 PLD but my LNC was only Level 20 then I would still be as tough stat wise as a Level 50 PLD but if I were to fight a Level 50 Mob I would miss a lot and do little DMG as my LNC skill is so low.

If however I do go out and fight lower Mobs and kill them I will receive SP for my LNC to Level up but not EXP for my PLD as that is tied to GLA.

Using the affinity system they could allow you to unlock higher affinity with a Lance and eventually allow you to turn into a capable PLD/LNC though as a tank you would still be better as a PLD/GLA for sure but at least this would allow you to use PLD/LNC even if it is situational.

I would prefer it if the system was more flexible like this, while the Job is tied to the Class it is not limited to the class. I realise based on the info we have been given so far though that a system like this has very little chance of being implemented but I hope it does have some degree of flexibility as I really, really, really do not like the idea of being tied to a certain weapon on my Job forever.

[Shai]

I'm sorry. I only skimmed so forgive me if you addressed this.

My idea is that you unlock Paladin on Gladiator.
Perhaps it is DOW only (fair enough), if you use it with Gladiator (Sword/Shield) you have 100% Sword/Shield abilities to equip. If you use it with Lancer, maybe you only have 90% or even 80% but you can still use a Lance if you want to and not have access to Lancer locked abilities (useable on the Lancer unlocked job such as Dragoon).

They stated recently that Jobs will not level. They receive no experience. They are simply slap on titles with benefits.

Anyway, aside from some subtle differences we both agree we'd want it to be flexible. Paladin locked in to sword & shield only will be pretty stupid (in my opinion) and I'll probably be one more fng nail in the coffin for me and this game. I am hopeful and I am optimistic (at times) but I feel like SE is really trying to push me away by making this game less and less free-form, be the kind of adventurer you want to be, and more close-minded, be this kind of adventurer or GTFO.

There's no way to be sure, but it is by far my #1 fear for my future with this game. Me personally. Don't care if 12 million people come back and adore the shit out of it. That's between 12mil and SE. All I care about is playing the kind of game I want to play and enjoy the time I spend playing it. People seem to forget that around here.

[Hayze]

Scrap the current system. Rebuild from the ground up.

Will be better in the long run than trying to reshape the system that is already in place to serve a different purpose. Nobody needs to lose anything, achievements can be reallocated.

[SomniOmnis]

I fear for the DoM's at this point cos the classic FF spell sets for WHM, BLM, RDM and DRK are split unevenly between the two DoM's we have now.

With the current free system of spell and skill swapping there is no need for dedicated healers and such. Unless you change that you will not get focus into the DoM classes.

Effectively we have a classless system and bolting a load of titled abilities on at the end is not going to change the way the game is played.

So unless you throw the exsiting armoury and AP system away then why not go and sort out the zones, the quests, travel and make the game more fun to play than it is now. Tinkering with the class/job system wont cut it.

Yeah, lets wait and see but I am unconvinced by the job system from what I have read so far.

Its amazing how the same company that ended up with this WHM can make such a diluted mess of FF magic as they have in this game.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/White_Mage

Thats a long way to have fallen.

[Renshi]

I don't give a damn about your magic sh*t, but I'd like to see a Marauder becoming a Viking or a Berserker.

[Rowyne]

I fear for the DoM's at this point cos the classic FF spell sets for WHM, BLM, RDM and DRK are split unevenly between the two DoM's we have now.

With the current free system of spell and skill swapping there is no need for dedicated healers and such. Unless you change that you will not get focus into the DoM classes.

Effectively we have a classless system and bolting a load of titled abilities on at the end is not going to change the way the game is played.

So unless you throw the exsiting armoury and AP system away then why not go and sort out the zones, the quests, travel and make the game more fun to play than it is now. Tinkering with the class/job system wont cut it.

Yeah, lets wait and see but I am unconvinced by the job system from what I have read so far.

Its amazing how the same company that ended up with this WHM can make such a diluted mess of FF magic as they have in this game.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/White_Mage

Thats a long way to have fallen.

Tell me about it. My main job being a WHM in FFXI, playing dedicated healers in all my other MMOs, and then this... all I ever wanted to be was a WHM again. I was hoping with the job system and new dungeons that would now happen.

The armoury system is fine for soloing, but I like having a role to play in a party. It's nice to have solo viability, but I don't tend to go with hybrid builds or jack-of-all-trades classes, regardless. If I'm trying to complete something and I can't solo it because of class limitations, I'll grab someone else to help me. I'd rather be an awesome raid healer than be able to solo some dodos.

Just giving us a few new spells won't give us those traditional roles. It would need to be some major changing of skillsets and/or potency. Hell, I'm not sure CON and THM won't need some reworking before they can implement jobs. Hopefully the dev team has something good up their sleeve. I'll wait and see before I panic.

Guess what I'm trying to say is, if jobs, specifically healing roles, are too complicated to properly develop because of the armoury system, I'd rather scrap the armoury system.

[Physic]

Tell me about it. My main job being a WHM in FFXI, playing dedicated healers in all my other MMOs, and then this... all I ever wanted to be was a WHM again. I was hoping with the job system and new dungeons that would now happen.

The armoury system is fine for soloing, but I like having a role to play in a party. It's nice to have solo viability, but I don't tend to go with hybrid builds or jack-of-all-trades classes, regardless. If I'm trying to complete something and I can't solo it because of class limitations, I'll grab someone else to help me. I'd rather be an awesome raid healer than be able to solo some dodos.

Just giving us a few new spells won't give us those traditional roles. It would need to be some major changing of skillsets and/or potency. Hell, I'm not sure CON and THM won't need some reworking before they can implement jobs. Hopefully the dev team has something good up their sleeve. I'll wait and see before I panic.

Guess what I'm trying to say is, if jobs, specifically healing roles, are too complicated to properly develop because of the armoury system, I'd rather scrap the armoury system.

lol, kill all other jobs for the joy of whm? ehhhhhh. truth is you can be a healer now with a mix of con and thaum. you can buff the party manage your mp, debuff enemoes and keep people alive.

i guess they really do need job titles, AF and a guide template for people to follow. People simply dont have the imagination to realize they are something unless the game tells them they are.

how to make a great whm. first choose your prefered aoe type, cone or circle bomb
next use thes skills
cure ii
sacrifice ii
blood rite ( cure potency increases with magic potency)
profundity (cure amount up on next cast)
stone skin
shock spikes
slow
radiance/damnation depending on con or thaum
prot/shell
absorb def/evasion
siphon mp
initiation(give your buffs to others- see absorb def/ev)
purge
raise
emulate (give to tank with initiation)
spirit bind
dia
banish

now add a job title that gives you 20% healing magic potency, and wow, no one can heal as well as you can.


jobs really would be better served if they werent locked to a specific class. probably even better served if you had to level a couple classes to unlock them

Now if you want no one else to be able to cure at all, any game with any solo/small group minded elements isnt for you. you can be a healer now. just understand everyone else in the game wonthave no option to heal themselves, you can just be better at it than they can.
Do it longer, more potent and with greater effeciency.