SMN DPS: Pushing it to the limit

[RxRai]

Of course it's a priority system once the fight starts but I think Ryuko has a point. It definitely depends on the fight mechanics, gear and your skill to time Festers and manage everything else.

Just for fun I did some calculations just very roughly. Assuming all the dots run their 'full' duration (base+contagion) the potencies are:
Bio 440, Miasma 455, Bio II 525. That means the base damage from dots is 1420. Add in RS and that makes it 1704 potency, a 284 potency increase.
Compared with what Ryuko said about Fester critting, assuming RS and all dots are up for both Festers and Fester crits both times that's 450 potency each compared with 300 normally. That's an overall 300 potency increase. Of course there's all the other factors that play in but unless I made a mistake, and please excuse me if I did (it's 6am) the difference in damage should be negligible at most.

[xxalucard]

Of course it's a priority system once the fight starts but I think Ryuko has a point. It definitely depends on the fight mechanics, gear and your skill to time Festers and manage everything else.

Of course there's all the other factors that play in but unless I made a mistake, and please excuse me if I did (it's 6am) the difference in damage should be negligible at most.

There is really no comparison to make. You can do both (all dots + 2 festers) while under RS. This is especially easy to do during the opening of a fight where the first 20-30 seconds are predictable.


There's no "risk" of not getting the festers off in time-- it's purely a player skill issue, like you mentioned. The difference in damage is not negligible; it's significant enough to warrant practicing an RS rotation and being able to do it.

I made a video of myself doing the opening rotation I describe (on a dummy with the battle log up):

Basic High-Damage Opening Rotation



I can make another video that shows me doing it in a boss fight, if it's requested. But it will just be me doing the exact same thing, the same exact way. Of course there would be adjustments depending on the boss, but regardless of what boss it is the principle is the same: you should be able to get all your dots and 2 festers off during RS.


[The main exceptions to doing the above as an opening rotation are when getting into melee range can force you to move before getting your dots up (ADS) or if a boss will become invulnerable before getting both festers off (titan HM).]

[jars]

RS bio II maisma bio I fester shadow flare always gets me 2 festers during RS. it's not even close, you get the second fester off with 5 seconds to spare or something

[Hitokirinomad]

/snip

What Ryuko (and you) get mistaken, is that Ryuko's method buffs a bunch of ruins. Now that we don't have Thunder anymore it takes about 7 secs (with lag) to get up your first 3 dots. Add a tick to wait for Bio/Fester, you're at 8 secs, and that's iff you somehow have no spell speed. Hit Fester off CD, that's 18 secs. And RS last 20. You have no reason whatsoever to miss your second fester (even while running), and you have 10 secs to get off your Shadowflare and a ruin or 2. There's no comparison.

[Kresciel]

raging strikes before dots results in higher damage

rotation 1 (dots before rs): dots> raging strikes > fester > miasma 2 > swiftcast > shadowflare > contagion > ruin *2 > fester > ruin*4 > fester (11 gcd skills)
-all dots are buffed by contagion, miasma2 + sf are buffed by raging strikes, 3 festers buffed by raging strikes.
total potency : 525(bio2)+ 475(miasma)+ 440(bio)+ 300(sf)+ 360*3(festers)+ 144(miasma2)+ 96*6(ruins) = 3540 potency (keep in mind you might lose 60 potency because lag/animation makes you unable to hit the 3rd fester before rs ends).

rotation 2 (rs before dots): raging strikes> dots > fester > miasma 2 > contagion > ruin > swiftcast > sf > ruin > fester > ruin (raging strikes end) > ruin*3 > fester (11 gcd skills)
-all dots are buffed by contagion and raging strikes, 2 festers buffed by raging strikes.
total potency: 630(bio2)+ 570(miasma)+ 528(bio)+ 300(sf)+ 360*2 + 300(festers)+ 144(miasma2)+ 96*3(ruins)+80*3(more ruins) = 3720 potency

there's very little risk of "missing" your 2nd buffed fester unless you're super laggy or falling asleep. assuming your gcd is 2.5, from the time you start raging strikes:
0.5s(lag/animation)+2.5s(bio2)+2.5s(miasma)+0.5s(bio animation) before your 1st fester (14 to 14.5 secs left on rs timer) subtract that by 10 secs(fester cd) and you've got 4-4.5 secs of leeway (and your gcd likely isn't 2.5, would be more around 2.4 - 2.45 region)

[T0rin]

Of course it's a priority system once the fight starts but I think Ryuko has a point. It definitely depends on the fight mechanics, gear and your skill to time Festers and manage everything else.

Just for fun I did some calculations just very roughly. Assuming all the dots run their 'full' duration (base+contagion) the potencies are:
Bio 440, Miasma 455, Bio II 525. That means the base damage from dots is 1420. Add in RS and that makes it 1704 potency, a 284 potency increase.
Compared with what Ryuko said about Fester critting, assuming RS and all dots are up for both Festers and Fester crits both times that's 450 potency each compared with 300 normally. That's an overall 300 potency increase. Of course there's all the other factors that play in but unless I made a mistake, and please excuse me if I did (it's 6am) the difference in damage should be negligible at most.

LOL, what? Are you seriously comparing a scenario where one side of the argument you crit all the time, and the other side you don't crit at all, comparing the damage, and then saying the difference is negligible? LOL?

The simple reality is you can RS, put up all your DoTs, and hit Fester twice, just the same as "Ryuko's method", except you get the extra ~300 potency from the buffed DoTs, which you also need to consider will be contagioned, giving you that much more.

There is no reason at all to RS after DoTs are up, none at all. This whole idea that you will have to dodge and blah blah blah and not be able to get the last Fester in is a load of nonsense. All fights follow a pattern, and everyone should know those patterns by now. If you can't get your DoTs and 2 Festers in before the RS buff expires, you're horrible.

[Cookar]

This is horrible... Raging strikes after you applied all you dots is really bad. The good opening sequence should go...

Raging Strikes > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Miasma II > Contagion > Ruin II + Fester(or Bane) > Shadowflare > Ruin 1....

My single target math says more like:

Raging Strikes > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Swiftcast > Shadow Flare > Fester > Miasma II > Contagion then move into a priority system with reapplying non Miasma II dots as needed and filling with Ruin/Ruin II. Miasma II is only applied when it can be contagioned as its base damage is lower than Ruin if not contagioned.

Shadow Flare is way more damage per cast than a raging striked contagioned Miasma II (~250 total potency vs ~144 total potency) and if you are on point with getting these skills off quickly, the first fester comes out before 10 seconds is out on the Raging Strikes, allowing two raging striked festers.

If you are concerned that you might not get the first fester off in time, then you could do:

Raging Strikes > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Fester > Swiftcast > Shadow Flare > Miasma II > Contagion. The problem with this is that using multiple off the gcd abilities in a row wastes them the way the game seems to handle them. So the rest of your opening may be delayed by about .5 seconds, which while undesirable is still better than Miasma II first. Even if it results in clipping a buffed Ruin into an unbuffed Ruin at the end of RS (16 potency lost), you still gain.

The other slight bonus these openings give is they give you two instant casts to get into position before your Miasma II instead of just one. The range on Miasma II is not huge and depending on where the pull took place, 1 gcd of movement may not be enough to actually make it into position.

The difference in this opening vs casting Miasma II before Shadow Flare is minor (basically maybe 30ish potency lost total) but it does exist. To clarify, if you calculate overall potency, this will provide the same overall potency as Miasma II first, BUT the damage from this opening is finished coming out 2-5 seconds before the Miasma II first opening which will translate to a damage increase over the course of the fight.

[Nux]

While we at it, i want to ask you guys. Is there any Significant difference between (As starter)

Bio -> Bio II -> Miasma -> RuinII|Fester -VS- Bio II -> Miasma -> Bio -> Fester

I've been arguing this with another SMN user in FC for which one the best for starter. the thing is
The left sequence will took 3 GCD for initial DoTs while the right sequence only took about roughly 2.5 GCD (because Bio need time to settle in) But as you already know Bio has higher potency thus leading to higher initial startup damage. But seeing the post inside, each of you are in favor for the right sequence, is there any particular reason for that ?

[WLotus]

Unless you want to do 1dps, apply RS before DoTs. This is my standard opener.

Swift Shadowflare > Spur+Rouse+Enkindle > RS > Bio2 > Bio > Miasma > Fester > Spam Ruin > Reapply Bio at 4s of RS left > Fester Again > Contagion

[xxalucard]

Unless you want to do 1dps, apply RS before DoTs. This is my standard opener.

Swift Shadowflare > Spur+Rouse+Enkindle > RS > Bio2 > Bio > Miasma > Fester > Spam Ruin > Reapply Bio at 4s of RS left > Fester Again > Contagion

This opener is not optimal.

#1: Your DoT rotation is incorrect (it should be Bio 2 > Miasma > Bio)
#2: Shadowflare is affected by Raging Strikes (since patch 2.1), and should be applied during RS for maximum efficiency.
#3: You would want to spam Ruin II (not ruin), as it allows you to get in more RS'd auto attacks during the GCD.
#4: There is no reason to apply Bio twice during raging strikes, that eats up an extra GCD and is inefficient (you should use contagion earlier, not re-apply the same dot)