SMN DPS: Pushing it to the limit

[Hitokirinomad]

/snip

What Ryuko (and you) get mistaken, is that Ryuko's method buffs a bunch of ruins. Now that we don't have Thunder anymore it takes about 7 secs (with lag) to get up your first 3 dots. Add a tick to wait for Bio/Fester, you're at 8 secs, and that's iff you somehow have no spell speed. Hit Fester off CD, that's 18 secs. And RS last 20. You have no reason whatsoever to miss your second fester (even while running), and you have 10 secs to get off your Shadowflare and a ruin or 2. There's no comparison.

[T0rin]

Of course it's a priority system once the fight starts but I think Ryuko has a point. It definitely depends on the fight mechanics, gear and your skill to time Festers and manage everything else.

Just for fun I did some calculations just very roughly. Assuming all the dots run their 'full' duration (base+contagion) the potencies are:
Bio 440, Miasma 455, Bio II 525. That means the base damage from dots is 1420. Add in RS and that makes it 1704 potency, a 284 potency increase.
Compared with what Ryuko said about Fester critting, assuming RS and all dots are up for both Festers and Fester crits both times that's 450 potency each compared with 300 normally. That's an overall 300 potency increase. Of course there's all the other factors that play in but unless I made a mistake, and please excuse me if I did (it's 6am) the difference in damage should be negligible at most.

LOL, what? Are you seriously comparing a scenario where one side of the argument you crit all the time, and the other side you don't crit at all, comparing the damage, and then saying the difference is negligible? LOL?

The simple reality is you can RS, put up all your DoTs, and hit Fester twice, just the same as "Ryuko's method", except you get the extra ~300 potency from the buffed DoTs, which you also need to consider will be contagioned, giving you that much more.

There is no reason at all to RS after DoTs are up, none at all. This whole idea that you will have to dodge and blah blah blah and not be able to get the last Fester in is a load of nonsense. All fights follow a pattern, and everyone should know those patterns by now. If you can't get your DoTs and 2 Festers in before the RS buff expires, you're horrible.

[jars]

RS bio II maisma bio I fester shadow flare always gets me 2 festers during RS. it's not even close, you get the second fester off with 5 seconds to spare or something

[Kresciel]

raging strikes before dots results in higher damage

rotation 1 (dots before rs): dots> raging strikes > fester > miasma 2 > swiftcast > shadowflare > contagion > ruin *2 > fester > ruin*4 > fester (11 gcd skills)
-all dots are buffed by contagion, miasma2 + sf are buffed by raging strikes, 3 festers buffed by raging strikes.
total potency : 525(bio2)+ 475(miasma)+ 440(bio)+ 300(sf)+ 360*3(festers)+ 144(miasma2)+ 96*6(ruins) = 3540 potency (keep in mind you might lose 60 potency because lag/animation makes you unable to hit the 3rd fester before rs ends).

rotation 2 (rs before dots): raging strikes> dots > fester > miasma 2 > contagion > ruin > swiftcast > sf > ruin > fester > ruin (raging strikes end) > ruin*3 > fester (11 gcd skills)
-all dots are buffed by contagion and raging strikes, 2 festers buffed by raging strikes.
total potency: 630(bio2)+ 570(miasma)+ 528(bio)+ 300(sf)+ 360*2 + 300(festers)+ 144(miasma2)+ 96*3(ruins)+80*3(more ruins) = 3720 potency

there's very little risk of "missing" your 2nd buffed fester unless you're super laggy or falling asleep. assuming your gcd is 2.5, from the time you start raging strikes:
0.5s(lag/animation)+2.5s(bio2)+2.5s(miasma)+0.5s(bio animation) before your 1st fester (14 to 14.5 secs left on rs timer) subtract that by 10 secs(fester cd) and you've got 4-4.5 secs of leeway (and your gcd likely isn't 2.5, would be more around 2.4 - 2.45 region)

[Nux]

While we at it, i want to ask you guys. Is there any Significant difference between (As starter)

Bio -> Bio II -> Miasma -> RuinII|Fester -VS- Bio II -> Miasma -> Bio -> Fester

I've been arguing this with another SMN user in FC for which one the best for starter. the thing is
The left sequence will took 3 GCD for initial DoTs while the right sequence only took about roughly 2.5 GCD (because Bio need time to settle in) But as you already know Bio has higher potency thus leading to higher initial startup damage. But seeing the post inside, each of you are in favor for the right sequence, is there any particular reason for that ?

[Cookar]

While we at it, i want to ask you guys. Is there any Significant difference between (As starter)

Bio -> Bio II -> Miasma -> RuinII|Fester -VS- Bio II -> Miasma -> Bio -> Fester

I've been arguing this with another SMN user in FC for which one the best for starter. the thing is
The left sequence will took 3 GCD for initial DoTs while the right sequence only took about roughly 2.5 GCD (because Bio need time to settle in) But as you already know Bio has higher potency thus leading to higher initial startup damage. But seeing the post inside, each of you are in favor for the right sequence, is there any particular reason for that ?

On a long boss fight where your dots will tick to duration many times, you want to get your highest total potency dots down as early as possible. Contagion or not that means Bio II > Miasma > Bio although the availability of contagion makes the difference between Miasma and Bio II nearly negligible (10 potency) if the other benefits of Miasma may be important to have up earlier.

For shorter fights where a mob will be dying before dots tick to full duration the priority changes and you have to sort of figure out on a case for case basis how long the mob will be living to figure out your dot priority.

[Wrydas]

Unfortunately I didn't log off on my SMN, but I am full BIS with T5 weapon and I usually pull 320-340 dps. We farm coil and sell primal extreme runs as 3 dps, I mention this only to add to my credibility
Here is a link to my gear set: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LQRW
My stat priority is Int>Acc(448 for pet)>Crt>Det>SSPD
Here is a link to my group doing T5:
http://www.twitch.tv/wrydas217/c/3612493
Notice I often don’t focus on maximizing DPS in order to benefit the group, your main priority is always clearing content.
NOTE: Instant skills in parenthesis "( )" are meant to be cast within a global cooldown
Rotation:
Raging Strikes + Foes Requiem -> Bio II -> Miasmi -> Bio (Rouse + Fester) -> Shadow Flare -> Ruin II (Spur + Enkindle + Contagion) -> Ruin I -> Ruin II (Fester) -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin II (Fester + Aether Flow) -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin II (Fester) -> Bio (Swift Cast) -> Shadow Flare -> Miasma -> Ruin II (Fester) -> Bio II -> etc.

Cheers.

[Wrydas]

Always keep your pet on Obey and control her abilities and positioning, if she dies you lose out on 70-80 dps. Use Raging Strikes/Spur/Rouse/Fester/Aetherflow/Contagion/Enkindle off cooldown, while weaving them into Ruin II, Bio & Swift Cast GCD in order to maximize your rotation and cast per minute, unless you are saving them for specific phases or mobs. Using swiftcast to maximize dot uptime is very effective for getting that little extra DPS from your rotation but it also leaves your group vulnerable to deaths. If your bards don't sing during dot applications you are missing out on 10%-20% dps. Make sure you use Bane, Miasma II, and Aerial Slash when there is more than 1 mob present. Ruin II GCD weaving although effective at increasing DPS is very mana intensive.

I'll try and make myself available to any SMNs with questions about rotation or more specific boss based strategies.

[xxalucard]

Unfortunately I didn't log off on my SMN, but I am full BIS with T5 weapon and I usually pull 300-400 dps.
NOTE: Instant skills in parenthesis "( )" are meant to be cast within a global cooldown
Rotation:
Raging Strikes + Foes Requiem -> Bio II -> Miasmi -> Bio (Rouse + Fester) -> Shadow Flare -> Ruin II (Spur + Enkindle + Contagion) -> Ruin I -> Ruin (Fester) -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin II (Fester + Aether Flow) -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin II (Fester) -> Bio (Swift Cast) -> Shadow Flare -> Miasma -> Ruin II (Fester) -> Bio II -> etc.

Cheers.

Not to nitpick, but this is not optimal either: (I'm also suspicious that your parser is broken if you think you are doing 400 dps in an actual encounter)


* There is no reason to go Ruin I -> Ruin II unless you are running very low on mp. It's a dps loss to spam Ruin I like that during RS because you will get in less auto attacks.

* There is no reason to cast shadowflare twice (?) in one RS rotation. If you meant the second one as after RS wears off, then you should use swiftcast on the first one (during the limited time of raging strikes).

* You should be using rouse / spur / enkindle --outside-- of raging strikes, because they do not benefit from the skill and take time away from your GCD's. It's irrelevant whether they are technically "off the GCD" or not, because in reality they take at least 1s to activate in between skills and only pet commands can truly be used simultaneously (such as obey or aerial slash). Using them during RS is a dps loss.

* You cannot use "Bio (Swift Cast) -> Shadow Flare" because after bio you will have to wait for the 2.5sec GCD before the AoE circle for shadow flare can appear (as the skill shares the same GCD whether or not you use swiftcast). It is better to try to weave in swiftcast -> shadowflare after using a skill that won't share the GCD (or at least can be used immediately after). Examples of these types of skills are rouse/spur/enkindle (not during RS), energy drain / fester / bane, aetherflow, normal cast-time skills (bio II, miasma, etc).

[Wrydas]

I use ACT can provide excel sheets

* There is no reason to go Ruin I...

You will go oom spaming Ruin II. We can agree to disagree

* There is no reason to cas....

30 seconds have elapsed at this point in the rotation. Although perhaps your suggest for SC on first during RS would be better

* You should be using rouse....

I don't think we are communicating properly, you can cast instant abilities in between spells that have no cast time in order to not lose time off your globals. Check the video to see what I'm talking about

* You cannot use "Bio (Swift Cast)...

2.5 seconds is not the global of BIO, Im at 2.41 base. When I cast SC in the global that is activated by BIO I am not losing anytime on the animation for SC itself. I do this to not incur the animation lock for instant cast abilities. These are where you lose time from casting..... see video for example.