AOE Toggle Needs to GO

[Shai]

I like how you two are still lurking and responding to personal insults, but completely ignoring my arguments that shut down this ridiculous circus.

TELL ME HOW THIS WILL MAKE THE GAME BETTER.

SE should only be concerned with making the game better.

They should also weigh in how long it will take to fix fundamental aspects of the game based on how worthwhile the finished result will be and how large an audience it will appeal to, but to simplify let's just say it should make the game better. Explain how it will make the game better for everyone.

So far my paraphrase for you two is "This game isn't like other games I played. Please correct."
I couldn't come up with a single reason that your idea is better than the current implementation.
In fact, I can only think of ways it will make the game worse.

*expects to be ignored again*

[Tibian]

TELL ME HOW THIS WILL MAKE THE GAME BETTER.

I have earlier, which you seem to have rushed over due to the volume of posts in such a short time.

1. Eliminates problematic toggling/mistoggling of the AOE button.
2. You should not have to rely on macros to perform core AOE functions.
3. The current AOE toggle essentially limits healing classes to sit back and just spam the designated hot key and then enter.
4. Pressing enter, after you want to cast a spell, is inefficient. Remember Windows Vista user control confirmation messages? "Yes I want to allow this to happen." Same story, only this time its with every single spell I cast. They clearly fixed that issue in W7.
5. With the elimination of the toggle, more "Final Fantasy"-esque spells can return. IE: Cura/Curaga/Fira/Firaga
6. The addition of AOE spells creates a more precise and engaging battle system in which there are consequences to casting aoe vs. single target spells at the appropriate time, rather than leaving it on AOE and just spamming for SP.
7. The current SP gain works that you cannot effectively aggro more than one group of mobs. The frequent accidental pull of another mob happens. There is no "being careful" especially with the wonky camera controls and AI pathing.
8. It encourages SE to create multiple action bars for better and more engaging battles because of the requirement to switch on the fly between single target and AOE moves.
9. Removes the requirement of cumbersome macros (that dont function fast enough anyway) and allows them to be used for other more important purposes.
10. Gets rid of an unnecessary input click.

That is 10 things. If I sit here longer I am sure I could find more, but they might be a bit more abstract and you might not consider them legitimate fixes.

[Shai]

I have earlier, which you seem to have ignored.

1. Eliminates problematic toggling/mistoggling of the AOE button.
2. You should not have to rely on macros to perform core AOE functions.
3. The current AOE toggle essentially limits healing classes to sit back and just spam the designated hot key and then enter.
4. Pressing enter, after you want to cast a spell, is inefficient. Remember Windows Vista user control confirmation messages? "Yes I want to allow this to happen." Same story, only this time its with every single spell I cast. They clearly fixed that issue in W7.
5. With the elimination of the toggle, more "Final Fantasy"-esque spells can return. IE: Cura/Curaga/Fira/Firaga
6. The addition of AOE spells creates a more precise and engaging battle system in which there are consequences to casting aoe vs. single target spells at the appropriate time, rather than leaving it on AOE and just spamming for SP.
7. The current SP gain works that you cannot effectively aggro more than one group of mobs. The frequent accidental pull of another mob happens. There is no "being careful" especially with the wonky camera controls and AI pathing.
8. It encourages SE to create multiple action bars for better and more engaging battles because of the requirement to switch on the fly between single target and AOE moves.
9. Removes the requirement of cumbersome macros (that dont function fast enough anyway) and allows them to be used for other more important purposes.
10. Gets rid of an unnecessary input click.

That is 10 things. If I sit here longer I am sure I could find more, but they might be a bit more abstract and you might not consider them legitimate fixes.

1. User Error

2. You don't. You can macro, type /aoe, push Z, or mouse click the button, probably bind to a controller button.
How many ways do you need? None of which have anything to do with macros.

3. There's no such thing as a healing class.
4. This has nothing to do with AOE and everything to do with targeting, which I agree sucks.

5. There are just as many FF games where Fire is multi-target and no Firaga exists.
See my paraphrase "This game is not like other games I played. Please correct."
Your personal preference does not make the game itself better. It just makes your experience better.

6. Spamming for SP? Have you played this game since 2010? The tactical AOE vs not-AOE still exists. We have the option of using AOE or not AOE without removing the toggle and adding double the spells.

7. Apparently you have played the new SP system, but guess what they are changing the rules of claim to address this situation. It has nothing to do with toggle of AOE or not. You have AOE on and hit another group you wish to engage? USER ERROR. The claim system is being adjusted, though. I agree it is flawed.

8. How does multiple action bars make the game better? Explain it to me where it's not your personal preference.

9. There's no need to macro AOE. There's nothing "cumbersome" about /aoe. Thanks for repeating #2 to fluff your list.

10. It's necessary if you want to avoid USER ERROR. I assume you're trying to tell me this "streamlines" the battle process, but I would counter that adding 2x the amount of spells is more cumbersome. So I have to say this is possibly personal preference and not an actual benefit to gameplay itself.

You got 10 more? Oh, I mean 9 more - or an answer to #8?
Sit there longer and find ones that are actually substantial. I could do this all night.

[Shai]

There's a subtargeting prompt, but there's no AOE prompt.

I click Cure. It hovers over a target. I choose the target and push enter.
There's no extra hidden "DO YOU WANT AOE?" prompt. You guys are making it up.

Does targeting need to be more intuitive? YES.
Does toggle AOE have anything to do with it? Not really, no.

[Rowyne]

There's a subtargeting prompt, but there's no AOE prompt.

I click Cure. It hovers over a target. I choose the target and push enter.
There's no extra hidden "DO YOU WANT AOE?" prompt. You guys are making it up.

Pushing enter goes hand in hand with the AoE prompt issue. The toggle is included in the final confirmation of casting the spell.

There are way too many steps in this game to throwing a cure on someone.

How it works:

1. Select a target
2. Hit enter to bring up your action bar
3. Flip action bar to find your cure spell
4. Select Cure
5. AoE toggle button appears in middle of screen. Toggle and/or hit enter to confirm (1-2 steps depending)

That's up to 6 steps.

How it should work:

1. Select target
2. Select Cure. There should be no flipping of action bars because they should show all at once. And cure should go off immediately with no extra confirmation.

That would be two steps.

I'd much rather go through 2 steps than 6. Removing the AoE toggle and the annoying confirmation you have to perform every single time you cast a spell would greatly streamline casting.

You're not attempting to improve the game, you just want to change the UI to one you prefer.

My UI preferences are besides the point. This is an issue of efficiency vs inefficiency.

[Vanguard319]

Wrong the steps are as follows:

1. select action bar
2. select spell (hit the corresponding number on the keyboard)
3. confirm target (at this time, you can hit z to toggle the AOE on/off as you need, it is part of the step)

Assuming you have your most commonly used spells in the first action bar, the first step can be omitted for a grand total of get this, TWO STEPS!

Once again, your logic, is fail.

[Rowyne]

Once again, you're logic, (and your counting skills) are epic fail.

1. select action bar
2. select spell (hit the corresponding number on the keyboard)
3. confirm target (at this time, you can hit z to toggle the AOE on/off as you need, it is part of the step)

Assuming you have your most commonly used spells in the first action bar, the first step can be omitted for a grand total of get this, TWO STEPS!

There is no way to know for sure which action bar is queued up, so I can't accept that going off memory or chance is a valid reduction of a step.

Lumping in 2-3 actions in #3 doesn't make them a single step, they are still multiple clicks/enters (and whatever the controller does, I have no idea since I play with kb/mouse).

There is no way you can reduce it to two steps.

[Vanguard319]

And so is your spelling (you're). Oh, look, I can resort to childish insults, too.


Apparently you don't know how to count, either.

There is no way to know for sure which action bar is queued up, so I can't accept that going off memory or chance is a valid reduction of a step.

Lumping in 2-3 actions in #3 doesn't make them a single step, they are still multiple clicks/enters (and whatever the controller does, I have no idea since I play with kb/mouse).

There is no way you can reduce it to two steps.

sure you can, they are done at the same time time. If you don't use a key board over the crappy gamepad map, that's not my problem.

[Chike]

Pushing enter is part of the AoE prompt. There are way too many steps in this game to throwing a cure on someone.

How it works:

1. Select a target
2. Hit enter to bring up your action bar
3. Flip action bar to find your cure spell
4. Select Cure
5. AoE toggle button appears in middle of screen. Toggle and/or hit enter to confirm (1-2 steps depending)

That's up to 6 steps.

How it should work:

1. Select target
2. Select Cure. There should be no flipping of action bars because they should show all at once. And cure should go off immediately with no extra confirmation.

That would be two steps.

I'd much rather go through 2 steps than 6. Removing the AoE toggle would remove that last annoying confirmation you have to perform every single time.



My UI preferences are besides the point. This is an issue of efficiency vs inefficiency.

Game UI designed for play with only Keyboard / keyboard + mouse / Controller +( Keyboard for chat)

without sub target confirm +( AOE toggle ) Controller User need to cancel current target -> choose new target -> use action -> cancel current target -> choose new target ????? it not easy to change target like mouse click

[rubina]

Game UI designed for play with only Keyboard / keyboard + mouse / Controller +( Keyboard for chat) without sub target confirm +( AOE toggle ) Controller User need to cancel current target -> choose new target -> use action -> cancel current target -> choose new target ????? it not easy to change target like mouse click

So they're gimping down the game controls for controller users? Let them add keyboards to their consoles. They need to chat on a MMORPG so it's not that much of a stretch of an idea.