List your concerns.

[xblackfriday]

One exception to your class issue ive seen alot lately is Lancer as an OT. Garuda extreme. Some FC groups are using a Lancer because of his heaver armor and cross class abilities. And with that it could be OPd. It could over power some classes.

About gear idk bout that. Thats a never ending cycle your talking about. If its different every single time then youll just be running the same dungeon over and over and over and over and over and over to get a better piece. The addition of Materia slots would be a good idea to the Rare items.

[Orca]

I think my greatest concern is combat. Especially as a paladin theres only so many halone combos you can do before you start drifting off, and i didn't have that problem with the class/job in older versions, as i had so many different defensive/healing/support options on my PLD. The original system also had Battle Regimen, which whilst terribly implemented at the time, was a very interesting notion where 2 players would que specific abilities and unleash to cause a unique combined effect. this was scrapped in exchange for the LB system wherein no actual teamwork or thought or activity is actually required to build outside of fighting as you normally would, and then 1 person using the DPS LB in most scenarios.


I enjoy combat that has layers for its core system, and whilst i think each layer should be simple for a 2014 MMO, there should be more than what we have now. These are things that should exist outside of a bosses mechanics like adds or kill orders etc, and be something that is present for every encounter.

Existing Layers;
1: Go through action bar rotation
2: Dodge Red Circles/Area based attacks
3: 1 Person uses LB after its charged up through generic combat elements

Added Layer i'd like to see;
4: Battle Regimen being brought back and being used to fill LB gauge. Would like to see players enter BR stance, que a specific compatible skill rendering it unusable and continue combat, until another party member enters BR stance and ques a matching skill, causing a new BR effect and putting BR stance on cd. Nothing super powered, just something that could be balanced in to the system. This would fulfill several areas that i have felt the combat system is lacking in. Be nice to see things like Mantra+Stoneskin = AoE Stoneskin at half effect.

* A spontaneous but co-operative element thats hands on with your group but wouldn't need as much strategizing as LB. (Right now i tend to feel like im soloing mobs in party battles as very few actions outside of healing jobs are actually interactive with your party.)
* A reward for doing so (LB charge isn't exactly a tactical art.)
* A chance to put some less useful abilities to work and create some interesting new combinations. (I see people complain about situational actions they never use and I think we could all think of about 2-3 per job that could be used to fit this system and see some use alongside our rotations.)

I can't imagine them ever doing something like this but yeah, this is what id have liked to see personally. ^^;

[Milikai]

Classes have no viable purpose. Once a player's character reaches Level 30, their class becomes nigh nonexistent. The sheer amount of benefits a Job receives from their respective Soul Crystals completely overshadows any benefit Classes could have. Player's have no reason to experiment with the Cross Class abilities to create something unique and fitting to how they play. This prevents the players from having any identity outside of their Job.

Thanks for mentioning this. Some minor ideas I think would help in promoting Class use:

1. Have quested armor (same as the jobs) that only the Class can use, not the Job.
2. Unique abilities for the Classes, that can be only used while in the actual Class, and benefit solo play (you could also make these abilities inaccessible while you're in a party).

[Enkidoh]

I could ask you the same. You only mention one out of the many subs you could use. You fail to acknowledge your gear with its distinct buffs, you fail to remember WAR used 2-handed weapon which still builds tp faster especially with haste. And haste decreases attack delay and recast timers by 15%, just as 15% in haste gear would, however this spell counts towards magical haste cap, not equipment haste cap. So what the hell sir? And I wasn't claiming that all those buffs would bring combat to XIV's lawlhyper spd combat. I was just catching him/her on the mad exaggeration he/she made.

Uh, excuse me? Exaggeration? When was the last time you played FFXI? Five years ago? Yesterday? Despite the improvements and changes made in the past few years FFXI's combat is still slow as anything, as it was deliberately made that way by design. Haste bonuses on gear and the Haste spell itself does help a lot, but the battle system is still slow regardless, and still amounts to sitting on auto-attack trading blows with the enemy to slowly build up TP (and hope to Altana the mob doesn't use a TP reducing/eliminating ability or, at higher levels, force unequip your weapon, in which case, kiss your TP goodbye - too many enemies tend to do that just as you reach max TP) before unleashing a weapon skill and hoping you had the timing right to get a skill chain with someone else. It was fun, but became really boring just sitting there literally doing nothing but watch the TP build up to use one ability.

Sure, some people like such a sedate form of combat, but personally, I think that style of gameplay is obsolete and just isn't interesting anymore. That's not to say the current system in XIV is perfect - it can definitely be improved. But your comments just come across as sadly as those from yet another FFXI fan with nostalgia-goggles thinking fondly back to the days of dreaded 'Dooms' parties.

[Vensaval]

I'm going to have to ask you two (Mattia and Enkidoh) to please stay on topic. Save your debate for a place where it belongs. Thank you.

[ReiszRie]

Combat is too repetitive.

Randomness in patterns makes a battle or an encounter a game of luck, if boss's moves are weakened, it makes the encounter easier, pattern recognition is crucial to avoid 1 hits but if 1 hits no longer poses a threat, I might as well just stand there and tank every thing making all encounters like T2 Enrage. The only way combat can be made "alive" is if the game has a highly advanced AI that responds to player's skills and movements and evolve to develop strategies to deceive and defeat the player.

Elemental wheel doesn't add "fun" it simply adds the same repetitive combat you're talking about and there will be difficulties balancing damage output, if BLM are the only ones capable of delivering elemental attacks to exploit elemental weaknesses, we might as well just have 4X BLM instead!

Its not as easy as you think it is and for the record, I have yet to come across a MMO with highly advanced combat AI that evolves and makes enemies feel "alive"

[Vensaval]

Snip.

I respectfully disagree with much of what you've stated.

I believe you are taking my statement of making combat feel more alive a tad too seriously. All I mean is it might be favorable to implement challenging AI to replace the predictable sequence of events. I don't at all feel that patterns are in any way “crucial”. They are merely a means of making the game more accessible to a larger variety of players. Randomness can and does work in this game. One of the most well designed bosses in the entire game—in my opinion—is Coincounter. The second boss of Aurum Vale.

All of its moves are sporadic and can be difficult to avoid due to the lack of range indicators on its skills. Players have to keep focused on its body language. The only memorization that takes place is with learning the name of their skills, what each attack looks like, and what each attack does. This goes far beyond 'just avoiding the red', so to speak. Especially since Coincounter does a continuous wipe of its enmity table. From a tactical standpoint, it even fares better than most other bosses in the game. Tanks cannot afford to stay still, else they will easily be downed. However, they also cannot afford to get their allies caught in the path of danger. The Healer and Ranged DPS have to stay on their toes and practice their timing since Coincounter will often target them from afar. Melee DPS not only have to have to avoid its attacks, but keep as synchronized with their Tank as possible so both of them can avoid substantial damage. All of this combined with Coincounters sporadic movements equates to match that is more about skill and awareness than prediction and avoidance. Just because an encounter isn't a memory game, doesn't mean it becomes a game of slots.

Sure, implementing an element wheel would add repetition of certain magic spells, but that's only for specific enemies. Besides, it's a Final Fantasy game. Since when did exploiting a monster's weakness become a boring thing? I know it's unprofessional for me to say that, but I stand by it. Also, having four Black Mages in a party may be a thing people look for. However, that would only be the case if combat stays the way it is in its current state. If it reached a point where most encounters were similar that of Coincouter (lack of range indicators would be a bit much), then it would four Black Mages just a viable alternative rather than a go-to composition.

[Everything below is based on the hypothetical inclusion of an elemental wheel.]

• Black Mage – Powerful single-target and AoE attacks typically cast from a distance. Can exploit elemental weaknesses on various enemies. Spells usually take time to cast and can be interrupted. They are very fragile in terms of health and are stuck in place when casting spells. Meaning a lack of mobility.
  
  
• Summoner - Excels in crowd control via Damage Over Time effects and Egis. Has a library of Egis that are able to exploit weaknesses of various enemies. Can move around more often than Black Mages while keeping the same range. Also fragile. Lack of powerful, instantly damaging abilities.
  
  
• Dragoon – Can wear heavier armor relative to their other DPS counterparts. Thus, making them much more sturdy. Very versatile in their moveset with powerful combo skills, skills that can be cast from range, close gaps, create gaps, and even do AoE damage. High damage melee. Has to constantly avoid AoE attacks being a front lines fighter. Skills have high TP cost. Meaning powerful burst damage, and decent sustained.
  
  
• Bard – Very mobile ranged DPS with moderate damage. Has powerful single-target abilities with AoE options. Also possesses supportive abilities to help allies during battle. More fragile and physically weaker than Dragoon or Monk.
  
  
• Monk – Very mobile melee DPS with high, sustained damage. Has increasingly powerful, single-target abilities and AoE options. Potential to do the most damage out of any class. Can infuse elements into their skills to take advantage of the weaknesses of various enemies. Low TP cost and high Skill Speed allow them to perform powerful combos with very few breaks. Has abilities to increase the survivability of self and allies. Reliant on positioning to do the most damage possible. Severe lack of ranged options. Has to constantly avoid AoE attacks being a front lines fighter. (It's easy for me to elaborate on Monk since they're my main Job. Sorry.)

What's the point I was making with all of this? Each Job has their own strengths and weaknesses. Even if an elemental wheel were implemented, it would not, in any way, make Black Mages the go-to DPS all occasions. The strengths and benefits of the other Jobs would not at all be negated. I sincerely feel that belief is nothing but a fallacy.

[Vensaval]

Pardon the bump, but this is something I'm not willing to let die just yet.

[TrystWildkey]

Want to know what my real, secret fear is?

I'm really afraid that everything we loved about 1.23 was what had been planned by Tanaka and team for eventual release. I'm really afraid that what we have in 2.0 is the best the current dev team can do. I'm afraid that the lackluster story and the pattern based, repetitive combat is the best we're going to get. I'm afraid that FFXIV will never rise above what it currently is, and will forever remain a plastic, soulless, linear world full of shinier gear with the same boring stats.

*sigh* That's what I'm afraid of, and that's why I keep coming back to see if anyone else feels as disappointed as I am. That's why every time the dev team responds to our feedback with a change, I almost become hopeful again, until the next set of patch notes.

[Shurrikhan]

[B][I][SIZE="3"][COLOR="#8b0000"]

• Combat is too repetitive. The core of this game is the combat. Sadly, nearly every battle—from world mobs to dungeon bosses—share the same basic mechanics. Dodge the AoE the enemy is performing and continue to repeat your rotation nonstop until the target is downed. When it comes to bosses and trials, the only way this is extended upon is due to the implementation of simple to memorize patterns, intrusive gimmicks, and One-hit KO prevention. The simplicity of combat not only sucks away the enjoyment from the game, but the immersion as well. It's clear to the player that they're not fighting against living opponent, but a program. Something needs to be changed in this regard.
  
• Classes have no viable purpose. Once a player's character reaches Level 30, their class becomes nigh nonexistent. The sheer amount of benefits a Job receives from their respective Soul Crystals completely overshadows any benefit Classes could have. Player's have no reason to experiment with the Cross Class abilities to create something unique and fitting to how they play. This prevents the players from having any identity outside of their Job.

I'll try to aim at these first, though this first take will likely be too much for any possible change.

General Aim before Text-wall:
- To decrease repetitiveness and increase interplay within combat. Timing and phasing dynamics should remain, but a player should not feel rigid, rather than purposed, in his deployment of abilities, nor isolated from the effects of his or her companions'. To accomplish this, under-mechanics have been added, and combat and AI revised.
- To increase horizontal gearing, ability and build-exploration, and leveling-interplay between classes and disciple types. (I won't have time to write any of that out for a while though, sadly.)

Text-wall. Shrinking to save people scrolling-time when the skip over all this.

(1) Remove "combos", to be replaced with a logical flow of abilities based on unique effects within each, based on new under-mechanics.
(2) Make broader and more interesting use of 'traits'. They should often act more as game-changers available to class, rather than mere ability-upgrades. They can also be cross-classed, to an extent. (Each trait will still favor its own class for organic reasons.)
(3) Abilities and traits can be gained in different order and modified by the player. They retain a sense of strategic consistency to their deployment and core effects, however. Experience in one class may also feed the experience to unlock certain parts within another/others, according to motif or ability type. This also applies to exchanges between and within Disciples of the Land, the Hand, (including Land to Hand, Hand to War/Magic, etc). Materia and abilities now both feed partly from experience. This experience can be reabsorbed (directly or indirectly)--you will never "waste" experience in exploring new builds. (I'll try to commit a section to this as soon as I have time.)
(4) Each ability may have more than one (or "variable") animation.
(5) More alternative stat-builds available within each class. Effects of stats are fully transparent. (This is largely dependent on the ability and under-mechanic changes, while in other cases certain abilities or effects within gain contribution from non-main stats.)
(6) Certain optional traits may allow exchange, recontribution, or redirection of stats. "Reforging" may also be possible, likely through changes to the materia system.
(7) Allowance of alternative dps/tank builds (such as Monk tanks, Marauder dps, Arcanist healers) as long as certain base measures are met (such as effective health, healing magic power, etc.).
(8) Able to queue as multiple classes/jobs, and to set priority on which you'd like to join as. Via a system similar to the DKP (Dragon-Kill-Points) idea, you gradually get further priority / seniority as you join as a class you would prefer not to be. The matchmaker system will also try to keep gearscore / stats in mind when forming a group, attempting to form not only a party that achieves the minimum gear level to queue, but also a minimum party-wide recommended stat level. This will often be a luxury unusable by the system, however, in finalizing a group, etc., it may as which of two jobs in the same role you'd like to go as, with small added incentive to use the higher-stat one via that system and occasionally or rested-xp rewards.

[As a consequence of [1], a stamina bar may be returned and abilities with more than one striking animation may each have multiple hits (applied as each of their animations occur rather than at the end of the combined attack)]

Additional consequences of the under-mechanics added in (1):
- Roles are slightly more versatile. DPS become a more integral part of the total situation--melee, especially in regards to manipulation of tank situation and enemy attacks, and casters in the general layout of and effects in play in the battle.
- Damage itself is often enough to interrupt enemies, and, similar to a sort of stagger system, interruption takes into account both burst and sustained effects.
- Positioning is not ability-tied, but rather positional bonuses are always in some form present, and blend well with certain abilities.
- 'Points of attention' becomes another system similar to positioning. It and enhancements to AI slightly change how enmity works.
- Classes and jobs are less known by their particular combos as compared to their motifs or traits. A marauder for instance, could receive damage bonuses from debuffing enemies, especially offensively, and Maim would be an early and critical part of that toolset, slashing at enemy's torso or hamstrings. Storm's Path would not end with a mere 10% buff. Its own effects would be variable, and would not rely on large hits to see a significant effect (it would instead basically create a sustained interruption on the enemy that reduces its damage accordingly, both in a flat amount and percentage).
- The elements within abilities have significance of their own--not through vulnerabilities so much as how the different elements interplay. This is what largely makes up the additional interplay available to ranged classes despite their detachment from the immediate field of battle. (Melee will feed into and from it as well, but much less directly. Monk's relationship with elements is especially unique.)
- DPS would have to be more aware of the combat outside of their own particular 'rotations'.
- Opens future opportunities for mechanics alike to skill-chains without their rigidity, and even ability-linking.

Examples of combo replacement:
Fast Blade-->Savage Blade-->Rage of Halone

In these changes, Fast Blade itself would be a fairly light but accurate attack that slightly increases dodge chance generally and parry against the specific enemy during the attack itself. Savage Blade, alternatively, is a reactive attack that deals additional damage based on damage that was or would have been done to you. Fast Blade is essentially a 'foothold' strike, that can be used to bait an attack in preparation for Savage Blade. Similarly, Rage of Halon is a (not by any real category, but just for ease of classification) "finisher" that deals additional damage based on what your recent damage dealt and the level of enemy interruption while solidifying some of the debilitating portion of that interruption. It's a pummeling, overpowering attack. This does not necessarily mean that you have to use it every third ability, and it may even be a good idea to use it immediately after Spirit's Within, but Fast Blade will help it to land every hit, and a well-placed Savage Blade can loan it a lot of attack power.
[Additional potency bonuses may be made in moving up the ladder of a motif set (FB-SB/RB-RoH; HB-Mm/SS-SP\SE/BB, etc.) in later balancing.]

The idea of holding off a Raging Blow-'Firestarter' for instance until after the first Rage of Halone has hit (not that we tend to do that) would still more or less apply to either waiting to see the ability go off or at least the 7.5 seconds of threat that usually accompanies Rage of Halone. The main idea is that you have the choice of how much to build up your damage and expertise and when to expend it.

{I actually really like how this ability set may compare to that of a Marauder who instead of making an accurate quick-attack (Fast Blade) takes a simple, straight-forward strong swing (Heavy Swing), and instead of the defensively opportunistic Savage Blade, deploy Skull Sunder as an offensively-opportunistic attack that takes advantage of being the tank to potentially intercept a blow on the way to opponent's head. Rage of Halon and Butcher's Block are a bit more similar, but again Butcher's Block is entirely offensive in its focus (it receives no contribution from having wearied down the opponent, only from [as with all attacks] breaking through defenses).}

{Work in progress / early stages} : (


Post-notes:
Though these changes aren't directly made for that purpose, I do hope to improve class usage through them, Vens. That said, I still imagine the classes as basically another job opportunity of their own, even if made from the more basic components. A Gladiator, for instance, lacks the steadfast passive hardiness of a Paladin, and would likely suffer from a reduced mana pool and casting potency in a purely physical set, but has more tricks and rapid mitigation at its disposal than Paladin. In terms of snap-tanking, or a general supporter without a need to Stoneskin or Cure, the Gladiator would likely outdo the Paladin. To put it another way, the Paladin confines itself to a certain niche, a highly useful and standard one, but opposite to that, Gladiator's comparative niche is in being niche-less. If playing as a burst-tank, it can also stick to offensive gear while still achieving the necessary mitigation at the appropriate times.