Twintania and strange aggro behavior

[Sigred]

Pulling/Tanking Twintania before and after 2.1

We've been doing this since before 2.1, and saw the exact same thing as we see now. The behavior of the mobs is the same as pre-2.1. The behavior of players, however, tends to change as time goes on. The less time put into a fight, the less likely non-tanks are to jump the gun. You're probably only seeing it now because the rest of your group is more likely to start hitting abilities in that first 1-3GCDs.

[edit]

The only thing that may be a bug is if an add does literally go directly to a player that has done absolutely nothing at max range. I say may because it would be more likely to simply be an algorithm determining priority of targets when the aggro table is active, but no player is actually on it.

[Iecerint]

Our team solved this mystery a few weeks ago.

The behavior is that Twintania will rush to any player who is outside the region where the purple fire is going to appear subsequently. So you have to stand kind of awkwardly close to Twintania before the pull to make this behavior go away.

Be sure that pets are in, too.

My guess is that this was intended to combat the old "get locked out of arena and kill her" bug.

[Ryios]

Initial agro on twintnia and the adds is random and based on positioning and range. If 7 people are in range of agro when the tank runs into to engage they immediately agro a random target out of the 7.

Solution,

Everyone except the 2 tanks stays on the hill at the top by the entrance just over the purple line. Have the Offtank run straight and to the left a little while the Main tank runs straight and to the right a little simultaneously. The off tank (Preferably pld uses circle of scorn and flash) while the main tank (warrior or pld) tomohawks/shield lobs twintania to the back right of the room with twintania ending up facing the pit where people stack for dive bombs. After the neck drops the MT moves twintania to right in front of the pit and faces her south so the 2nd necklace drops right there and everyone is close to the pit to run in for dive bombs.

Once the off tank snaps off a flash and the mt gets off th/sl everyone else runs down and get's in position.

It's also easier if everyone spreads out as far as possible so new 2 people ever get hit with the same liquid hell.

[Traek]

We've been doing this since before 2.1, and saw the exact same thing as we see now. The behavior of the mobs is the same as pre-2.1. The behavior of players, however, tends to change as time goes on. The less time put into a fight, the less likely non-tanks are to jump the gun. You're probably only seeing it now because the rest of your group is more likely to start hitting abilities in that first 1-3GCDs.

[edit]

The only thing that may be a bug is if an add does literally go directly to a player that has done absolutely nothing at max range. I say may because it would be more likely to simply be an algorithm determining priority of targets when the aggro table is active, but no player is actually on it.

I've been doing this since before 2.1 as well, and there is definitely a difference in aggroe pattern from before and after. As noticed by everyone in my group. Every single person doing the same thing on the same job. No abilities used, even stand still with pets away it still went to different people in the group. You are simply wrong. Our whole pull method was changed based on the change in aggroe pattern from after 2.1.

I like that you tout you've been downing it for so long. If anything your "farm" of T5 shows your lack of experience to groups who sit and wipe face on it constantly and have to pull multiple times, compared to your *one and done*. Either way, there is no explanation for mobs going after a stand still no buff party member, that is no where near the pull. Aggroe is obviously borked on this fight, and the fact a single buff from the pulling tank fixes the issue is more proof something is amiss.

[Grembo]

Solutions that people have suggested so far are a bit messy :/

We had this problem for ages, the adds would always target our SMN no matter how we made the pull. Having our SMN stand right at the spawn zone would prevent it but that's not a viable workaround since our SMN would literally have to sprint into the zone as soon as I made the pull.

After some reading our Raid Leader found a good workaround, I assumed it would be common knowledge by now but guess not...

...anyway.


1. OT runs to the left off twintania and uses Tomahawk/Shield Lob on the first add.
2. OT pops a coooldown (I use Bloodbath, anything else should be fine too). This will make everything aggro the OT.
3. MT pulls Twin away from the adds.
4. Yay, OT can now spam some hate.

It's important that the dps or healers don't do anything till the MT has pulled twin away from the adds, just a dps cooldown is enough to rip the adds from the OT.

[Sigred]

I love when people just say something is random instead of examining the logical possibilities.

[Traek]

Logic = Before 2.1, no aggroe issues on pull.
Logic = After 2.1, aggroe issues on pull.

Logic = Same everything before and after with different results = Game mechanic change.
Logic = No one but pulling tank does literally anything, but adds random aggroe people standing still. Pretty straight forward.

Hmm yes logic.

[Sigred]

If anything your "farm" of T5 shows your lack of experience to groups who sit and wipe face on it constantly and have to pull multiple times, compared to your *one and done*.

You think my group didn't spend countless hours wiping over and over in order to establish a working, reliable strategy? I'm flattered that you have such faith in my ability that we simply walked in and instantly put her on farm status.

Look, from my PoV, you're simply wrong too. My group encounters the same behavior, logically examined the circumstances that reproduce it, deduced the conditions responsible for it, and formulated the strategy that would prevent it from happening from empirical experience.

If you cannot see the value of that, or are truly experiencing a completely different set of circumstances, then we must simply agree to disagree on the matter.

Side note: I don't believe you actually have any meaningful grasp on how logic really works, but neither do the majority of people. There would be no point in me advancing my case any longer. I've put the info out there, so say whatever you like; those who can take something away from reading it will.

[Grembo]

Logic = Before 2.1, no aggroe issues on pull.

Actually these issues were present before 2.1, your memory might be off but a quick google search would have showed you that plenty of people were experiencing the exact same issue well before 2.1 came.

Before 2.1 as the OT I could get around this issue simply by using provoke to pull the adds, if I pulled them in the normal way they would target our SMN every single time.

After 2.1, the provoke method no longer worked but the issues with the mobs targetting our SMN were still there. That's when we found the cooldown method and we've been using it ever since.

[Traek]

You think my group didn't spend countless hours wiping over and over in order to establish a working, reliable strategy? I'm flattered that you have such faith in my ability that we simply walked in and instantly put her on farm status.

The point was, before the down people wipe the most. Generally after the down, its a couple shots then done. After a week or two of that, its one shot every week. I don't think it is flattering, as most groups follow this pattern. Take it as you will though.

Look, from my PoV, you're simply wrong too. My group encounters the same behavior, logically examined the circumstances that reproduce it, deduced the conditions responsible for it, and formulated the strategy that would prevent it from happening from empirical experience.

If you cannot see the value of that, or are truly experiencing a completely different set of circumstances, then we must simply agree to disagree on the matter.

We can agree to disagree then. I already know the solution, its been discussed and we use it. In fact in my first post I even reiterated it. Perhaps for the weeks or months of us pulling Twintania before 2.1, we were so incredibly lucky that our pulling tank without using buffs never lost add aggroe, but *logically speaking* that doesn't make sense.

Side note: I don't believe you actually have any meaningful grasp on how logic really works, but neither do the majority of people. There would be no point in me advancing my case any longer. I've put the info out there, so say whatever you like; those who can take something away from reading it will.

Yes.. unless someone conforms to your opinion, they must not grasp how logic really works. Very logical conclusion. I have put the info out as well, seems to be a bug as I stated.

Actually these issues were present before 2.1, your memory might be off but a quick google search would have showed you that plenty of people were experiencing the exact same issue well before 2.1 came.

Before 2.1 as the OT I could get around this issue simply by using provoke to pull the adds, if I pulled them in the normal way they would target our SMN every single time.

After 2.1, the provoke method no longer worked but the issues with the mobs targetting our SMN were still there. That's when we found the cooldown method and we've been using it ever since.

Seems you are running into pre 2.1 and post 2.1 issue. I can say confidently I didn't use provoke on adds though, so I'm not sure why I would receive different results. Granted the December/Christmas time was a busy one for all, I guess saying exactly at 2.1 is when the issue occurred might not be the case. It was just what I concluded from it. Still within December for sure though, I myself was on vacation around 2.1 hitting.