Why undercut by a 1,000+??

[actionjmanx]

snip

Both Wal-Mart and Amazon are bad examples.

True, Wal-Mart undercuts the other competition in town but they do so at the expense of their minimum wage employees and overseas child labor. After undercutting for so long, the other business go under, making Wal-Mart the only option in town and giving them a pricing monopoly.

Amazon actively fights states in the US that try to pass laws to charge sales tax on internet-based transactions. How is that not an attempt to write the rules in their favor?

To suggest that "real" businesspeople don't try to maximize profit is both ridiculous and laughable. Of course they try to maximize profit; losing money is the other option. Ever heard of an oil company, pharmaceutical company or even a gun company "breaking even" and selling products at cost? Of course not; they post record profits year after year because they're maximizing profits.

[actionjmanx]

Undercutters baffle me so much because they don't attempt to maximize their profits. There is a cost to each item because someone had to go out and mine, harvest, fish, shard cost etc. All items have a cost in time and effort, be it by the item creator or someone else.

I can understand people wanting to move product they got out of a treasure map and will never use. Still, if I sell at 600 and they at 50 (it), that 550 gil difference could be a teleport or a repair. Over 5-10 sales, that's a stack of food for Coil with money they have quite literally thrown away.

When crafters do it, it's even worse because they know full well they're boning themselves (on gil) and me, for ensuring my product never sells.

You people who say you purchase the "more expensive" item are very far and in between. I've had stuff sit for 2-3 weeks and not sell at standard market price, even when the next undercutter is selling at -5-10 gil. I undercut them and it sells within 2 hours.

[Sparky]

If they have time on their hands, and presumably time enough to gather their own materials, all they have to worry about is their Gil balance increasing. Whilst yes you could argue that time is a commodity, it doesn't result in a net loss of money like it would in the real world. If someone gathers 200k worth of their own materials in order to craft perhaps 500k worth of marketable goods, then that in theory gives them 200k worth of undercutting power versus someone who had to buy their materials. The truth is you can't stop people from undercutting, especially if the monetary cost of producing the items to them is next to nil.

[OSUBuckeye4]

The truth is you can't stop people from undercutting, especially if the monetary cost of producing the items to them is next to nil.

That's the underlying problem.

Everyone can do everything in this game (if they spend enough time leveling up the class).

Why should I spend 1,200 gil per finger sandwich when I can just go out and harvest the resources I need and make the sandwiches myself for much cheaper?


Either SE needs to make it harder to level (let's be honest, ship has sailed on that), or, they need to implement caps on certain crafting classes. (allow you to make everything up to lvl 50, but, then you have to pick a specialization for lvl 51+ receipies/ingridents)

[Sparky]

I can't deny that Disciples of the Land are incredibly easy to level at the moment. In the space of one week, I leveled my miner 30-50, my Botanist 24-50, and my Fisher 6-50, only doing leves between 45 and 50 for each. Granted I am between jobs IRL so I have a lot of time to pump into that, but realistically, even someone who works 9-5 every day could do it in a month.

[Mysteltain]

Either SE needs to make it harder to level (let's be honest, ship has sailed on that), or, they need to implement caps on certain crafting classes. (allow you to make everything up to lvl 50, but, then you have to pick a specialization for lvl 51+ receipies/ingridents)

I really would like to see that implemented: a system where you have to choose a craft to specialize in, and only as that craft could you make the 1* and 2* items. It would certainly increase the prices of those higher level items, and it would also give people a reason to focus on one craft rather than spread their resources over all eight crafts. Unfortunately, I don't see dedicated crafters taking very well to this notion, only people who have a vested interest in the well-being of the economy. And even then, that doesn't solve the immediate issues that dungeon drops are often miles better than anything we can currently craft, that most crafted gear from 45-50 is utterly worthless, and that Alchemy is an overall useless craft.

It would be a small victory, for sure, but there are too many other issues present to drastically change the status quo.

[Sparky]

It is really a problem though? Is it really so hard to level up DoL? I really don't think it is, and I'd go so far as to say it's one of the easiest things you could do in this game. Are the advantages really something to be sniffed at?

Yes sure, you could say that it could make the 'problem' worse, but the problem is profit margins is it not? The only way to increase margins is to source your own materials. That's the way it works out in the real world, and thats the way I suspect SE intends it to be in-game.

I think a lot of people are still riding on the wave of profits seen during the race to hit the cap on crafting, leveling etc. Those who never touched their gatherers or other crafters are suffering, but those who are concentrating on everything are starting to hit the level cap on everything, and quite rightly are seeing the reward for it.

I think it's safe to say that those ** items will never ever be 180k-200k again. That wasn't a fair price to start with, and I think 70-80k (on my server at least) is more than fair.

[OSUBuckeye4]

It is really a problem though?

I've said this a few times in other threads, but, no, it's not a problem right now.

It's going to be a problem down the line though.


Right now, it's okay because there are enough people who are only lvl 50 in one or two areas... those people still need to utilize the market board, and people who are lvl 50 in other areas can sell their goods to them.

That's going to change as more and more people start to hit 50 across the board on DoL.


I'm not saying that everything should have a tidy profit margin, there are always going to be things that are cheap, because they are so easy to obtain.

I'm just saying, SE needs to put a mechanism into the game that forces people who want to craft, to utilize the services of other crafters. Allowing everyone to obtain everything at almost 0 cost, is not a sustainable system.



Last night, I went through my retainers inventory and got rid of 50% of the harvested items in it. Why? Because they were literally selling for the cost the NPC would pay for them (or less than cost). I could buy stacks of 99 of all of them off the market board for 1g.

What's the point of even holding onto those resources if you can grab a 99 stack for 99g? That's literally less than the cost to teleport out to the area and harvest the resources.


You're going to start to see that across the board as more and more people hit 50, and less and less people feel the need to use the economy. (because they can do everything themselves for cheaper) People are going to have these gigantic stacks of resources and there is going to be no one who wants to buy them for more than 1-5g, because they can just harvest them for free.


It's not a problem right now, but, it's going to be a huge problem later.


Well, unless you're one of the people that think everything is awesome because there's no need to ever spend gil in this game. Then again, why even have crafting in the first place if that's the case?

[Sparky]

You're totally right though, there is no need to spend gil. Crafted gear is better than a lot of dungeon gear up to item level 50, then it's decent. So what else is there to spend gil on? Housing? It's nice, but not a necessity.

Personally, I have no grand designs on becoming mega rich. I craft because my other jobs need them, and I gather because my crafters need materials. I am not even part of the market demographic, because I have no desire to spend my gil on the market. This will probably upset a few people who think that crafting is a license to fleece me.

So to all who reads this, a genuine question. Why do you need to make lots of Gil? If it's access to gear, then SE already have the answer for you, and that is the multi job system.

For many people worried about crafting the answer is there already, it's just a question as to whether you choose to seek it.

[MithrasInvictus]

The degree to which I undercut is directly related to the price of the item. Before the update when I could sell HQ darksteel weapons for 600k, if I had to undercut I might do it to the nearest thousand, or price using values that are multiples of 2,500. I sure as hell wouldn't undercut like that on, oh I don't know, a dozen darksteel nuggets. I would undercut them by values much more appropriate to the cost of the item.