Gridanian Religion vs Reality: How much do the Hearers really hear?

[myahele]

Oh I am guessing that it was destroyed along with amdapori civilization.

The elemental is strong in gridanania. Perhaps the keeper of the moon were ok, but when the the elementals rage everyone suffers.

The cat people have their own beliefs, but due to the calamity many have to join gridanania or be poachers

[HumsterMKX]

Maybe the Elementals ARE part of the Amdapori Civilization.

Amdapori died because they tried to play god, who knows, the Elementals maybe nothing more then advance AI still operating, which were made by the Amdapori to guard their secrets, secrets that lead to their destruction.

[Lucke]

Kinda agree on some points here. I don't think the elementals exist for the reasons Gridania thinks they exist.

So, elementals control the greenwrath right? And if anyone harms the Black Shroud, they get hit with the greenwrath.

I didn't start in Grid, but the various quests I did state that the people only take what they need, nothing more. The elements accept this. That's why the CRP and BTN guilds can exist.

So, why are there so many poachers around? Clearly the elementals don't tolerate that.

Why don't the elementals protect the Shroud from the tempered sylphs? According to the good sylphs, they are constantly making poisons and harassing the good sylphs by poisoning the Shroud.

And why on Hydaelyn do the elementals not do something about the GIGANTIC Garlean base in the East Shroud? That thing has giant walls covering the entire eastern wall of the Sylphlands. Why can't the elementals attack the Garleans? They probably use Magitek tree cutters to decimate the Black Shroud. They probably don't even use the wood, they destroy the trees to make room for their huge base.

[HumsterMKX]

Lucke got a few points. It seems like the elementals only work if you believe they work, they can only effect you if you believe they have an effect on you.

If you just gave them the finger they can't do crap. Then of course they have their beilevers out to get you.

[Enkidoh]

That's what Khrimm thought in 1.0 too - only to discover the hard way when he set a Hedgetree on fire in an attempt to prove they didn't exist, thus provoking the elemental within to promptly appear and turn him into a statue. The elementals are very real, as I've been trying to tell you throughout this entire thread. To an outsider of course, it appears to be hookum, but anyone who spends even a small amount of time in Gridania soon discovers, the elementals are real and will punish insolence.

[Lucke]

Enkidoh, if the elements exist, why don't they punish the factions that are damaging the Shroud. If the Elementals are essentially the aether, why don't they destroy the poachers, tempered sylphs, and the Garlean base in the East Shroud?

So either A) They were severely weakened during the Calamity to the point of near uselessness, or B) they gave up on protecting the shroud.

[HumsterMKX]

That's what Khrimm thought in 1.0 too - only to discover the hard way when he set a Hedgetree on fire in an attempt to prove they didn't exist, thus provoking the elemental within to promptly appear and turn him into a statue. The elementals are very real, as I've been trying to tell you throughout this entire thread. To an outsider of course, it appears to be hookum, but anyone who spends even a small amount of time in Gridania soon discovers, the elementals are real and will punish insolence.

Actually Khrimm believes they exist. He kept saying they don't and went to burn the tree down out of sprite.

Remember how he became an orphan in the first place.

[FJerome]

So either A) They were severely weakened during the Calamity to the point of near uselessness, or B) they gave up on protecting the shroud.

Y'know, Gridanians keep mentioning how the Elementals have been weakened but we do see the Green Wrath in 2.0, in the White Mage quest-line and directed against Gridania.

Mind, you're never offered an explanation as to why Gridania's the target.

Kinda agree on some points here. I don't think the elementals exist for the reasons Gridania thinks they exist.

So, elementals control the greenwrath right? And if anyone harms the Black Shroud, they get hit with the greenwrath.

I didn't start in Grid, but the various quests I did state that the people only take what they need, nothing more. The elements accept this. That's why the CRP and BTN guilds can exist.

So, why are there so many poachers around? Clearly the elementals don't tolerate that.

Why don't the elementals protect the Shroud from the tempered sylphs? According to the good sylphs, they are constantly making poisons and harassing the good sylphs by poisoning the Shroud.

And why on Hydaelyn do the elementals not do something about the GIGANTIC Garlean base in the East Shroud? That thing has giant walls covering the entire eastern wall of the Sylphlands. Why can't the elementals attack the Garleans? They probably use Magitek tree cutters to decimate the Black Shroud. They probably don't even use the wood, they destroy the trees to make room for their huge base.

Heck, maybe the elementals have decided to throw in with the Garleans. It's probably Ramuh that's keeping them out of the Sylphlands, even the elementals may be having trouble against a Primal, and now they've had it just about up to here with him and with Garuda and are now favouring a civilisation that'll actually do something about them.

Or not . . . but given that Stileglade Fane accepts Adventurers the ability to hear the elementals probably isn't exclusive to people born in the Shroud. Gridania's enemies should find people of their own who can do the same and then start back-room negotiations . . .

[Darske]

You know, it wouldn't surprise me if the elementals were weakened so much after the calamity that they just can't quite defend the shroud the way they used to. Also, keep in mind that the elementals are beings of Aether, and that Primals feed on Aether- between Ramuh and Odin, and the Ixal raiding the shroud for crystals, I think it's entirely possible that post-calamity events continue to weaken the elementals. Or at the very least, keep them from regaining their strength.

The way I see it, before the calamity the Elementals were an ever present and powerful defender of the wood. After, however, because of what I just detailed the elementals have been severely weakened. It's possible that aside from a few outbursts of greenwrath, they really can't do anything to protect their home right now- and so it falls to the Gridanians to protect that same wood we all share.

[Enkidoh]

That's what I've been saying for the past three pages. It's stated repeatedly in the Gridania storyline that the elementals usually are pretty pragmatic when it comes to transgressions of their will in the forest, and are usually quick to punish those who do, and hence because it's so unusual that since the Calamity there's been an increasing amount of incidents in the Black Shroud of formerly illegal behavior (Ixal incursions, illegal poaching and logging etc), Gridanians were getting increasingly anxious as a result, because this sort of thing really is out of the ordinary. It was also stated that the Calamity did in fact cause so much damage, the forest is taking a long time to fully recover, hence the elementals are greatly weakened as a result, thus giving a clue as to why poachers are seemingly getting away with their crimes.

Not to mention the fact that

the Ascians were also revealed to be behind a lot of the trouble too - the Gridania storyline showed they were constantly interfering with Gridanian rites to appease the elementals, such as the rite of returning in the Spirithold (an Ascian summoned a golem to scare off the CNJs from performing it in an attempt to anger the elementals), they were the ones emboldening the Ixal to make raids on the forest, even having them threaten the Hedge itself, and culminating on an attack on the sacred tree of Everschade (the Guardian Tree) - effectively a blasphemy of the worst kind to Gridania.)

And although they may be quick to anger, the elementals are also shown to actually be empathic as well - they do forgive and forget, even understanding when a transgression made against them by one person doesn't mean the whole nation is therefore guilty. Gridania and the elementals are effectively in a symbiotic relationship, that was actually summed up quite nicely in 1.0 as thus:

O-App Pesi: "Ah, forgive me, I suppose an explanation is in order. We conjurers of Gridania use our magic to weave a sort of barrier around the Twelveswood. It is a pact we share with the most ancient of the elementals."
O-App Pesi: "They protect our city-state, and in turn we protect them. That is why the Hedge exists. Think of it as a symbol of our friendship."
O-App Pesi: "It's also what you and any other non-native to Gridania have to thank for not being attacked upon entering the forest."
O-App Pesi: "At least, you would have it to thank had you not passed along just as a portion of the Hedge was broken."
O-App Pesi: "The greenwrath was upon you the instant you drew near-and it clings to you still. Sorry to say, but you've got the stink of woodsin all about you."
O-App Pesi: "After all that, you still need to ask if the forest elementals truly exist?!"
Papalymo: "That's what I've been trying to tell you. There are elementals in all sorts of things. Rocks, rivers, flowers. They are the unifying force of this entire forest."
Yda: "Sooo, an elemental is like a gigantic, super-powerful person?"
Papalymo: "Really? Are you kidding? How have you made it this far in life? They are not to be thought of as individuals of any size you dolt. Explain to me what part you don't understand."