The Letter is up

[Aistaraina]

Yeah I guess the concept of threading is not for this thread.

Witty.

I skipped the technicalities and opted for a silly response, but apparently you want to hear them. It would still lock up the simulation thread. Depending on how they decided to write the game, the simulation thread typically spawns numerous threads to handle IO, physics, AI etc simultaneously. The simulation thread then waits for all threads to complete before restarting its loop. If whatever thread combat is running on never completes due to said retarded loop conditions, you're hooped.

Please don't turn this into a programing debate.

[charliesheen]

Witty.

I skipped the technicalities and opted for a silly response, but apparently you want to hear them. It would still lock up the simulation thread. Depending on how they decided to write the game, the simulation thread typically spawns numerous threads to handle IO, physics, AI etc simultaneously. The simulation thread then waits for all threads to complete before restarting its loop. If whatever thread combat is running on never completes due to said retarded loop conditions, you're hooped.

Please don't turn this into a programing debate.

Your response is silly too. All the defenders of the SE order seem to be missing one thing. Yes, this isn't some silly homemade app, but this isn't some silly amateur company either. SE is a global developer and publisher with hundreds (probably thousands) of staff on their payroll. No one, especially not me, is saying that it is simple to recode games or any other complex programs for that matter. What we are saying is that for a company of this size to have so much trouble recoding anything in this game, shows a very big weakness in them. Any programmer worth his salt plans ahead for changes. And any programmer worth his salt doesn't have his code in a giant mess with absolutely no documentation or indicators for different parts of code in each module. You all act as though this is just one giant file of code that they need to eyeball to find things. And you all act like when they are debugging code, the tools give them absolutely no indication of what is causing the problems. In that case, maybe the developers at SE really are working from home, with absolutely no professional tools.

Once again, I point to the case of linkshell member count limitations. Something they have said they "cannot change" due to the way it is coded. Are you people just going to sit there and pipe the same drivel about how complicated programming is? My point from pages back is 100% correct - the code was a complete mess from Day 1, end of story.

[Gramul]

Perhaps that's a part of that whole communication problem they've been having.
They've never really had to redesign a game before so perhaps they never thought it necessary to keep track of certain elements or structures, which would be a terribly unprofessional habit.

Whatever the reason, no one here knows how the game is structured, what sort of planning goes into redesigning it, or how they approach problems with the old structure. Anything we say for or against it can only be speculation.

[Jynx]

Perhaps that's a part of that whole communication problem they've been having.
They've never really had to redesign a game before so perhaps they never thought it necessary to keep track of certain elements or structures, which would be a terribly unprofessional habit.

Whatever the reason, no one here knows how the game is structured, what sort of planning goes into redesigning it, or how they approach problems with the old structure. Anything we say for or against it can only be speculation.

True, anything we do say is extreme ammount of speculation. While I would go as far to say it does seem to be taking longer than I would expect. But hell we don't know the formulas, codes, what is all tied to the battle system. I mean we are not just looking at making weapons wing automatically. They have to balance-rebalance skills that are just broken without stamina use "Fient" for example, or most reactionary skills will probably have a much longer cooldown than prior to the update, TP generation may be nerfed or weaponskills having longer recasts than usual. Then we factor in the "Speed" of the swings and the "DPS" and how that effects the monsters behaviour.

Some mobs have skills that trigger from basic attacks that before could be easilly avoided due to needing to manually attack. Funguars for example could have there "Sporeshroom" abillity avoided if you stopped attacking while it was bloated up. Wether they are working on those as well is unknown.

They are working on far more than just the battle system as well. We currently have.

-Battle tweaks
-Redefining how stats work
-Job system
-Materia system
-Instanced dungeons
-Toying around with abolishing surpluss
-...

The list could probably go on for miles on what they are working on at the moment. While it's obvious a majority of the team would probably be on the battle stuff I would imagine they still have people working on other projects and probably some not even announced to us in general.

Personally while it's anoying to wait, I have no issue in waiting for the project to be fleshed and polished before we get to play with it.

[charliesheen]

Personally while it's anoying to wait, I have no issue in waiting for the project to be fleshed and polished before we get to play with it.

Agreed! My posts are about the project in general, not the addition of auto-attack. As I've pointed out a few times now, they are even incapable of removing the member cap on linkshells at this stage. Clearly there are major issues.

[Aistaraina]

*irrelevant*

Not sure why you bothered to write that wall. I have never disagreed with you that the code base is a mess. In fact, I agree with you that is probably is very poorly written.

The original quote was some code where he implied fixing it was easy, I simply made a stupid remark that despite how "easy" people seem to think it is, it's not, on that fact his loop failed. He tried to prove me wrong, I defended myself.

You're the one that's taking this seriously.

I'm not taking anything seriously. You're the one that responded saying I am wrong when i'm not lol

[KumaAkuma]

Witty.

I skipped the technicalities and opted for a silly response, but apparently you want to hear them. It would still lock up the simulation thread. Depending on how they decided to write the game, the simulation thread typically spawns numerous threads to handle IO, physics, AI etc simultaneously. The simulation thread then waits for all threads to complete before restarting its loop. If whatever thread combat is running on never completes due to said retarded loop conditions, you're hooped.

Please don't turn this into a programing debate.

You're the one that's taking this seriously. I wrote a simple code that everyone could understand. Ofcourse the actual code would be a bit more complicated than that, but it wouldn't be millions and millions lines of code, like some people are trying to make you believe.

[charliesheen]

You're the one that's taking this seriously. I wrote a simple code that everyone could understand. Ofcourse the actual code would be a bit more complicated than that, but it wouldn't be millions and millions lines of code, like some people are trying to make you believe.

That is what they choose to believe. Anything to make an excuse for SE. I've noticed the trend on this forum, either you are able to make valid criticisms about SE, including their poor skills at programming (which coincidentally was true in FFXI too, I suppose they will tell us next that it was masterful programming), or you are in the Pro-SE camp. These people accuse anyone who complains of being unreasonable. That SE are doing the best job they can, and we have no right to complain, we are wrong.

So it is indeed millions of lines of undocumented code for every part of the game. They do indeed need to eyeball it all to find problems. If Carlsberg made programmers... they would be SE programmers right?

[Gramul]

That is what they choose to believe. Anything to make an excuse for SE. I've noticed the trend on this forum, either you are able to make valid criticisms about SE, including their poor skills at programming (which coincidentally was true in FFXI too, I suppose they will tell us next that it was masterful programming), or you are in the Pro-SE camp. These people accuse anyone who complains of being unreasonable. That SE are doing the best job they can, and we have no right to complain, we are wrong.

So it is indeed millions of lines of undocumented code for every part of the game. They do indeed need to eyeball it all to find problems. If Carlsberg made programmers... they would be SE programmers right?

This shouldn't be an "us vs they" debate. Stop taking sides and start thinking objectively.

We know nothing about how this game is programed or what type of work and research goes into each feature and update. Could the lack of speed stem from poor programming? Maybe. But it's just as possible that they spend too much time fretting over where exactly the player should be able to walk over a wall as a matter of convenience vs aesthetic.

[charliesheen]

This shouldn't be an "us vs they" debate. Stop taking sides and start thinking objectively.

We know nothing about how this game is programed or what type of work and research goes into each feature and update. Could the lack of speed stem from poor programming? Maybe. But it's just as possible that they spend too much time fretting over where exactly the player should be able to walk over a wall as a matter of convenience vs aesthetic.

I don’t live in the middle anymore. That’s where you get embarrassed in front of the prom queen. Check my previous posts where I've emphasised the point that they can't even remove the cap on linkshell member counts due to programming. There can only be so many things that the linkshell member count is connected to, yet they are incapable of changing that small tiny part of the game. It has been brought up with them and they have actually said they are unable to change it.

So while a lot of what we argue about is up for debate, you can't deny the simple fact that something is very wrong with the situation when they can't change something so simple. As for the "us vs they" debate, I should have rephrased. I am me, the warlock, and everyone else can have their own fights. I am only here to deliver finely honed violent torpedoes of truth.