Lack of SE Response to Lag

[Rivienne]

Rubberbanding, i would say 60+% of the time, is a local issue. As in your city, your street, your house, your router, your nic.

Want to test it? bring your computer to a friend's house and hook into their router, and see if the same issues occur.

Don't half-ass it by tapping into a shared wireless network at apartments or something.

If no troubles, the issue is confirmed local. If yes, then we can talk.

Don't want to test it? Then don't expect us to consider your concerns as valid.

Just want to point out, if you want to help people troubleshoot, you might want to actually read more of the posts. If you had done much reading up on these forums posts (including over in tech support) you would see it isn't local, it is very specifically in level3 for a larger percentage of people complaining. Specifically the same addresses set in level3.

The majority of people are complaining about a new issue, that affects entire ISP's that are routing through that level3 address. I can personally verify this problems occurs in 5 locations across 2 states now. The one thing they all have in common is that they are routed through the same node in montreal. If you can get a VPN address that routes around that node.. Problem goes away.

The problem could be in isp, or it could be in level3, but is isn't remotely local. I am sure some people complaining have a different issue entirely, but the majority of these new posts/threads are about the new rubberbanding that is caused by specific hops. The traceroutes should be enough for you recognize this. When traceroutes from the UK, Canada, US in both eastern and western, all show packet loss, at the same address at Level3, there is clearly more going on.

[Allyra]

it is very specifically in level3 for a larger percentage of people complaining.

It should be noted it is not just level3. Level3 is just the most recent one. People all over the world for months have been experiencing this issue, including the JP. It's just people don't notice how widespread it has been until it happens to them.

[Tiggy]

Most game companies arent going through the level3 Montreal nodes, SE is, those Nodes have been shown to drop anywhere from 10-40% of packets during peak hours. This, for me started after the 2.1 patch.. What did the 2.1 patch do in terms of data? It changed the server position checking from 0.3 seconds to 0.1 seconds (ive heard) this would triple that type of traffic going through the level3 nodes. Either the nodes cannot handle it, or have gone bad, or something. The only thing game wise I can see SE doing is reverting that change, otherwise they have to work something out with level3.

Anyway, I doubt they will every publicly admit to anything. That would increase expectations for them to fix something, jeopardize negotiations with level3 if there are any going on, or possibly open them up to a libel suit from level3 (silly I know, but in a world where you can trademark and sue over the word "Scrolls" and "Candy"....)

Please don't feed MythToken. He has absolutely no interest in actually understanding the problem and just wants to blame SE. Then he repeatedly says "it doesn't happen in other games" as if that means anything at all. You can show him a million traceroots, you can show him graphs displaying the packet loss, you can try to explain the way the internet works, but all will meet with failure. Some people on this forum don't understand how this stuff works and they don't care to even try to figure it out. Let alone listen to knowledgeable people here.

[MythToken]

Yes listen to Tiggy, because rather than addressing blame to the company you are paying for a User Experience, Server Stability, and Generally enjoyable Game Environment. He would have you figure out the internet.

All users should demand excellence for something they are paying for on a monthly basis.

If you were to apply Tiggy's model to a Leasing a Car. He would have you figure out why the fuel line can't supply the engine all the time and shuts off. And rather than blame the manufacturer of the Car company. He would have you blame the company or companies that made the fuel line.

SE has a problem, and that problem may be with the Server, how the internet works with their server. SE must find ways around these problems, so that their game and our experience is enhanced.

It is not the customer's responsibility to fix the game.

No matter how many times trolls like the one above say it is.

SE has a problem and SE needs to fix it.

[Tiggy]

A better analogy would have been a car owner complaining to the dealership about the roads, but it's ok. I'm sure you'll get it one day.

[Tupsi]

Yes listen to Tiggy, because rather than addressing blame to the company you are paying for a User Experience, Server Stability, and Generally enjoyable Game Environment. He would have you figure out the internet.

You're right mr mime cat. Did you read this, Square? You run the level3 backbone, fix it!

[kukurumei]

A better analogy would have been a car owner complaining to the dealership about the roads, but it's ok. I'm sure you'll get it one day.

Actually any car that cant meet road standards will have to pull their products off the shelf, or fix it.

Typical "I forget to give it some thought". All manufactures of products have to adhere to a minimum standard fault tolerance if not for their reputations, then for the government's consumer safety policy.

Every wonder why cars don't blow up when getting bump from the rear(a landmark case). Not getting hit is not an option people want to hear.

[Tiggy]

Actually any car that cant meet road standards will have to pull their products off the shelf, or fix it.

Typical "I forget to give it some thought". All manufactures of products have to adhere to a minimum standard fault tolerance if not for their reputations, then for the government's consumer safety policy.

Every wonder why cars don't blow up when getting bump from the rear(a landmark case). Not getting hit is not an option people want to hear.

You really want to split hairs? Fine. Put potholes instead of roads in the above sentence. Probably makes a better analogy anyway.

[Allyra]

You really want to split hairs? Fine. Put potholes instead of roads in the above sentence. Probably makes a better analogy anyway.

Except: A driver can dodge potholes, we don't have a choice in our ISP path without paying extra. And while a driver pays the city in taxes and thus has more say in getting them fixed, we don't pay ISPs anything and they don't owe us anything.

In other words, stop making analogies because analogies are dumb and stick to the matter at hand.

Ultimately, though I find you to be someone who doesn't actually want to help, but just is trying to be "right on the internet." None of what you say changes anything. We want SE to respond to the issue, whether it's "we're talking with these ISPs," or "we are working on changing our data packets" or even "we don't care about your lag, go away." SOMETHING.

You are contributing nothing of value to the thread outside of wanting to whiteknight SE, because god forbid people who pay them want them to actually say something instead of ignoring us.

[Duuude007]

*raises hand* I've done this at three addresses. Rubber banding at all three. Two are Sky Broadband, one is BT Infinity.

followup question then: same comp every time?


And @ Mythtoken...

Have you ever heard of a network boundary?

It is the end of one network's control, and the beginning of anothers'.

If point A iis SE and point Z is you, the boundary is somewhere around point C.

A-C SE can control, somewhere beyond C is where Level 3 is in charge.

Apps like WTFast can reduce the number of hops to connect with point C, not point A. All that is SE's domain.

When you connect to WoW, you connect to a server farm in the same fashion, but the network infrastructure between you and those servers does not involve the network pipes in and around Montreal. of COURSE the results will differ. If WoW's datacentere were in the same place, right now you would be dealing with the same frequency of issues, as it is not a server issue, it is an external network issue.


That said: I am in Idaho, no issues whatsoever.