We're going to make the game a bit more tolerable for melee DPS

[Mitski]

The problem with these types of threads, is that people exaggerate either way to try and make themselves seem more convincing. There's some people claiming that it's "impossible" while others will claim that it's "too easy" (or maybe they're just that amazing!).

[Sygmaelle]

Either I missunderstood you, if thats the case I am sorry but it takes a really incompetent melee if he gets outdpsed by ranged in those or any fights this content has to offer so far if gear is not the issue.
I don't know much about Dragoons at last for Monk I'd have to play really terrible to not come out on top though.

You just never met a good ranged. A summoner I play with very often do 400 dps no matter what without lb, I seriously doubt you re close to that on monk. I did say appropriatedly geared ranged too.

And you ll never reach that on dragoon too unless its a 1 min fight and you get lucky on crits + havin shit ton of det (understand by that, you got the full BiS + havin luck)

That's complete BS, especially the bard part. Never seen a bard even come close to the range of number a melee DD can yield. Do you have any kind of numbers to show for? If needed I can dig up some numbers from ACT's history to show that a DRG can easily go past 300 DPS by a mile (often past 350 and sometimes up to 400), as long as the fight is not completely biased towards ranged DPS. If SMNs, BLMs and BRDs are all that much better, there should be loads of parses out there that show much higher numbers, so pls bring those parses. Just because you are not able to outdps ranged DPS, doesn't mean it's an issue with the class.

I did see bards reach 360 - 370 dps man, don't hate. With 0 accuracy and full crit gear they are simply amazin on EX Primals, and we re talkin about 600+ crit here. Same for Summoners

[Vodomir]

You just never met a good ranged. A summoner I play with very often do 400 dps no matter what without lb, I seriously doubt you re close to that on monk. I did say appropriatedly geared ranged too.

And you ll never reach that on dragoon too unless its a 1 min fight and you get lucky on crits + havin shit ton of det (understand by that, you got the full BiS + havin luck)

So what, you compare a 0 acc BIS equipped SMN (who obviously also gets lucky on crits and stuff to break that 400 DPS) to a non BIS equipped melee wearing acc gear?

As said, I did break 400 DPS on my DRG for more than 1 minute (pretty sure I could have hovered around the 400 DPS mark for even longer if the fight wouldn't have ended at that point) and I did this more than once. I'm not exactly BIS geared (as my FC is still working on Turn 5 and I'm also missing a couple of pieces from the earlier turns and EX primals) and I was doing it with my regular accuracy gear I wear for doing coil. And ACT doesn't include LB into anyone's personal DPS, so if I was to use LB, it would actually lower my DPS as I wouldn't be hitting the target at all during its cast time.

I did see bards reach 360 - 370 dps man, don't hate. With 0 accuracy and full crit gear they are simply amazin on EX Primals, and we re talkin about 600+ crit here. Same for Summoners

So what exactly hinders a melee from going for 0 acc gear to significantly bolster their DPS numbers? (I currently don't have that gear but might be worth a shot to go for it outside of coil)

[BlackThought]

The problem with these types of threads, is that people exaggerate either way to try and make themselves seem more convincing. There's some people claiming that it's "impossible" while others will claim that it's "too easy" (or maybe they're just that amazing!).

This is literally every thread regarding melee dps in a nutshell. People frustrated w/ a mechanic come in for advice. People chime in with "Oh you're just awful. I've literally never been hit by anything ever and parse 5000 DPS."

Truth of the matter is dodging Wicked Wheel isn't just up to the melee. Much like anything in this game, it takes coordination. That said, if you cannot take the heat, get out of the kitchen because that is where you will always be on MNK and DRG.

[Rochetm]

What about the method I suggested earlier in this thread? It completely avoids WWs on the melee DPS and doesn't really add any extra layer of mechanics or complication (unless you consider both tanks provoking a target more complicated than only one tank doing it).

Most tanks can't handle that.

[Rochetm]

Truth of the matter is dodging Wicked Wheel isn't just up to the melee. Much like anything in this game, it takes coordination. That said, if you cannot take the heat, get out of the kitchen because that is where you will always be on MNK and DRG.

You mean the like the monks that always do 300+ dps on titan EX and never lose GL. They never explain how its possible to never lose GL but somehow they are able to do it and everyone else is just bad.

And again as you pointed out there are fights like garuda EX that melee require the rest of the group to be very good and do very specific things so they don't die... like a strat that is only required if a melee is in group. Or parking garuda in a certain area so they can dodge the wicked wheel.

My guess is these super melee that never die/get hit with anything are more just lucky with their tanks/heals being super good at not killing them.

[Thrustie]

What about the method I suggested earlier in this thread? It completely avoids WWs on the melee DPS and doesn't really add any extra layer of mechanics or complication (unless you consider both tanks provoking a target more complicated than only one tank doing it).

I had one group that did it the way you suggested and it works perfectly if executed correctly. I've had other groups try and do it and struggle to pull it off. Some of the OT's seemed to have trouble picking up both spiny and Chirada. I've never tanked endgame so I can't comment as to whether it should be difficult or not. Maybe the DPS was going too hard on Chirada and the tank was struggling to keep both stuck to him while moving into his corner, if I had to guess. It kinda goes back to adding a new mechanic like i mentioned before though. People choose the path of least resistance.

[Sygmaelle]

I'm not exactly BIS geared (as my FC is still working on Turn 5 and I'm also missing a couple of pieces from the earlier turns and EX primals)

With 450 crit and 299 det you break 400 dps ? Riiiight With a Mega Pot of STR I guess, but I'm not talkin about attack nodes in turn 2 with Selene + War debuff or the last boss in Amdapor, I'm talkin about sustained damage on raid bosses or Primals.

The big advantage summoners got is that they dont have to move whatsoever and always have dots runnin on everything that, in a competent group, are boosted most of the time by Requiem so I let you imagine with spell speed given by Selene, allowin them to do one more spell in the same time frame than what they usually do without.

[Warrlordd]

The only thing, and i REALLY mean, the ONLY thing which is unfair for melee DPS (and BRD too but BRD have an easier time) is Blood for Blood. I should not have to pay such a high price to do more dps. 25% is a big increase in damage taken and I'm talking about things like T4 where u get the 360 cleave off knights and such, or when the rooks invariably target you cuz ur awesome. I wish DRG trait for it at least would reduce the damage taken increase to 10% or something. At least they threw us a bone and gave us keen flurry/featherfoot which should counterbalance it but even still.


AS FOR ALL YOU WHINERS have you not noticed that melee gets an increased defense/hp over your ranged counterparts? its very significant and that alone should satisfy you. There has never been an instance where i feel like I'm less valuable as a melee. It's just not true. If you feel like it is too hard, then here is news for you. YOU. ARE. NOT. GOOD. so stop, please. Don't try to whine your way into getting buffs or nerfs to content because the reality is we don't want this game to be too easy. It's already pretty simple. I wish it would be harder.

For Ifrit EX, it's up to you to know where that debuff is. Don't be retarded. And there's more than enough time to kill the nails so if you get tied to the tank, look for an available nail or just dps Ifrit a little bit. The chain itself is not that bad so u can probably safely stretch it halfway across the room if u want to.

Titan EX is like a gift-wrapped target dummy, his hit box is so large and u can do DPS while mobile.

Garuda EX is so easy I don't even wanna explain it. There's already several posts telling you how.

As for changes I'd like to see, I'd love to have a cleave, something that hits 2-3 targets (preferably just 2). I think this would be a welcome and desirable change.


TLDR: No whining, melee is fine. Plz give us a cleave, though

[Ephier]

Cue Garuda EX and wicked wheel.


Oh, you figured out that Friction and Downburst are followed by the attack that instantly kills you? Great, we're gonna switch that up in the next phase. Also hope you're lucky with the timing on these aoe's so you can actually get out of range. Wait, you wanted to DPS? Why on earth would you play a melee DPS if you wanted to DPS?


Seriously, this is completely unacceptable. They messed around with the numbers, but the problem between ranged and melee DPS is not their number output. Its the mechanics they're expected to deal with during fights.

For real? The skill is really easy to dodge. Slipstream>Downburst>Friction>Wicked Wheel. Only time this is different is during tornados, soon as tornados spawn she will wicked wheel, then go back to the the rotation I mentioned before. It is not hard. Tired of melee complaining all the time. Harder bosses please.