2.15 PvP changes

[Alhanelem]

Now A SMN is definitely going to meld Crit so at least 1-2 out of the list is going to crit.

You obviously don't know how +crit works. You also need determination, as the min-max geeks have recently determined. There is no such guarantee of critting.

Also why can't you counter a healer's healing? You'd be spamming Ruin 2 all the time and should be

Well, I"m not countering. So I guess your guess is as good as mine. Most of the matches I lose, a healer successfully counters my burst train, and once my steam runs out (PvP CD's used and Raging strikes has worn off) the healer has no trouble healing against me. The only tool SMN has to get ahead in this situation is Bane, which does work, provided you aren't already dead from being bursted by the other team (Which virtually all teams gangbang the SMN first due to its reputation)

[TaneshimaPopura]

I had 11 kills Whack-A-SMN/SCH spree which I lost back when I was a 70MRD...

@Alhanelem

I don't know about you son. But for me I'd seeing crits of at least 1 skill during a burst phase. I only have to pray to the RnG gods that it is my Flare as a BLM. Then I can go "Wohoo 2.2k biatze!" Say if you're not melding Crit/Determination as SMN what are you melding seriously? Even I'm the exception of pushing Spell Speed on 90Caster which has minimal Spell Speed manages to crit during those times.

There are absurd times where I Hardcast Flare, FireStarter, Quickcast Convert Flare and cleaved everyone on my healer. OR the time where that full PvE Monk took a 3.8k Flare crit in the face followed by 2.5k Firestarter. Crit happens and saying 1 - 2 out of what 6 skills Critting is already being generous, Garuda Enkindle critting is enough to make your day real miserable.


@ Alhanelem.. On a later post...
"What are you talking about? Casting your three main dots is effectively a combo prerequisite."

Doing it wrong man... Just saying...

Also you'd think it that easily for MRD to switch target? Switching without Storm Eye debuff? switching without CDs? Switching when you already committed your Full Swing? Go study up other classes before you think switching means you can ramp up 100% damage efficiency.

[LateRegi]

Alhanelem, I know I've played at least 20 or so matches against you while I was solo or duo queuing. Can you not recall the murderous acts I've committed on the healers you've been paired with? i70 and i90 MRDs do in fact pull of huge Butcher's Blocks, but the point that very experienced players are trying to make is that melee burst requires built-in combos. Butcher's Block, assuming 100% uptime on every action you queue, takes 7.5 seconds to execute, while requiring that you're in melee range of your target, and not including buffs and debuffs on your opponent.

SMN burst kills the target dead from range with absolutely zero setup/combo prerequisites. You see your target from across the map, use a macro that buffs your pet (off-GCD) and sends it to Obey your target. You Sprint, buff yourself, and kill them almost immediately most of the time, or cripple them so severely HP-wise that the rest of their team is at the whim of the rest of yours assuming the same thing isn't happening to you.

[Epistane]

No more fights where you have 6 kills and lose =)

Rofl, this. Most I had was like 5 kills in one game against a double smn team with Hud on top of his game with sleeps. Still lost tho, they're like zombies I swear

I had 11 kills Whack-A-SMN/SCH spree which I lost back when I was a 70MRD...

Holy crap 11 kills.. I dont even..

[Alhanelem]

SMN burst kills the target dead from range with absolutely zero setup/combo prerequisites.

What are you talking about? Casting your three main dots is effectively a combo prerequisite. That's around 5 seconds and change, so SMN doesn't get going drastically faster than the MRD in your example. Also, MRD can easily get his combo going on another target before switching to you, while SMN doesn't have this option (at least, not as conveniently, and at the cost of an aetherflow charge)

Another thing you have to remember is it's no longer possible to enhance this with a BRD's presence. Yes, the hidden nerf: Foe Requiem is now totally useless short of a WHM or SCH nuking in cleric stance, due to the impossibility of BRD and BLM or SMN being paired together.

...so you didn't read my explanation of the burst combo that the few good PvPers in this thread have referenced? The SMN burst that kills a target in 2 GCDs makes no use of a single DOT spell.

Then there's something I'm not understanding, becuase Fester is SMN's highest damaging skill, and there's no reason you can't do all those other things in addtion to that. So how am I a "bad" SMN. Casting DoT's is "wrong"? Please, by all means enlighten me. All I know is enkindle + my non fester off GCDs are not enough to kill people. Somehow yours are, so I'd like to know what I'm not doing.

or cripple them so severely HP-wise that the rest of their team is at the whim of the rest of yours assuming the same thing isn't happening to you.

That's one hell of an assumption.

Bards use FR to enhance their own windbite and stuff like that.

Foe Requiem has no effect on non-mage abilities. It has no effect on Windbite, no effect on MNKs using Fists of Fire, no effect on flaming arrows. As far as I'm aware it ONLY effects magic damage cast by magic classes.

4th Titan is even more of a joke as you will most likely miss his Enkindle since it is cast on a PBAoE around Titan's current position.

I don't know what "PBAoE" means, but Titan's enkindle is centered on its target; Yes, people can walk off the ground AoE, but that's in addition to the immediate damage. Titan not so much, but Ifrit is not that uncommon to see. Yes, his regular attacks are not elemental, but isn't enkindle the whole reason you brought up resistance to begin with?

[Trevalion]

Yeah, that's not at all bursting and is blocked by Purify. You proved his point further and argued against Deca without knowing it.

He was talking about 3-shotting something as a SMN. So gave a quick example that works on many players purity doesn't use Purify for dots, my dear forum quoting troll *wink wink*

[LateRegi]

What are you talking about? Casting your three main dots is effectively a combo prerequisite. That's around 5 seconds and change, so SMN doesn't get going drastically faster than the MRD in your example. Also, MRD can easily get his combo going on another target before switching to you, while SMN doesn't have this option (at least, not as conveniently, and at the cost of an aetherflow charge)

...so you didn't read my explanation of the burst combo that the few good PvPers in this thread have referenced? The SMN burst that kills a target in 2 GCDs makes no use of a single DOT spell. I'll reiterate: Buff pet > set to Obey target > Sprint > buff self on way to target > Enkindle at long range while approaching target > Wither > Aetheric Burst > Energy Drain/Ruin II > completely dead target. No DOTs.

[Youmu]

What are you talking about? Casting your three main dots is effectively a combo prerequisite. That's around 5 seconds and change, so SMN doesn't get going drastically faster than the MRD in your example. Also, MRD can easily get his combo going on another target before switching to you, while SMN doesn't have this option (at least, not as conveniently, and at the cost of an aetherflow charge)

You dont need to use any of that. Just use all your instant skills, and you WILL do 3-6k damage in 4 seconds. Toss a swiftcast bind (or have something stun) on their healer just prior to the burst, and you have a very dead target. 100% of the time.

I think the real problem here, and why you think the class was fine, is because you're a bad SMN.

[Deca]

What are you talking about? Casting your three main dots is effectively a combo prerequisite. That's around 5 seconds and change, so SMN doesn't get going drastically faster than the MRD in your example. Also, MRD can easily get his combo going on another target before switching to you, while SMN doesn't have this option (at least, not as conveniently, and at the cost of an aetherflow charge)

Another thing you have to remember is it's no longer possible to enhance this with a BRD's presence. Yes, the hidden nerf: Foe Requiem is now totally useless short of a WHM or SCH nuking in cleric stance, due to the impossibility of BRD and BLM or SMN being paired together.

Bards use FR to enhance their own windbite and stuff like that (Unless it still doesn't work). Also, I'll be the first to admit 90% of the time I PvP now unless I know the team is serious I don't even use DoTs I just shotgun rambo instants and dumb stuff for the first minute of a fight. It requires virtually no thought and when you're helping your 5th friend hit r30 it's worth the few losses you might suffer for the ease of use lol I'm looking forward to 4s so I can teach myself to pay attention again.

[thendcomes]

Bards use FR to enhance their own windbite and stuff like that (Unless it still doesn't work).

It doesn't. Only magic attacks.