"In-Progress" queue fishing has to stop

[juniglee]

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It's really saddening to see that we can't simply be decent human beings, play the game, think about others. No, no reward and everyone else can die in a gutter. Apparently we need incentives to help people.

Duty Roulette was invented as a means for newbie to get help running dungeons, since nobody does those dungeons and they need it for story dungeons. No reward = let the newbies rot in a corner. This is bad enough in Main Scenario, where people go in, heckle others to skip cutscenes, simply because they want their reward.

Yes, throw the newbies under the bus. Throw the unfortunate players who decided that their life calling was to play DPS under the bus.

So apparently, you have the freedom of action to fish for queues, but other people don't have the freedom of action to play a class they want? Contradictory much?

It is the optimal, best-case-scenario for ONE in 4/8/24 other players. Unless you can show it's beneficial to all party members, which it is clearly not, otherwise such threads wouldn't exist - instead, you'd see more threads praising the fishers. Keep in mind that there's a larger number of fresh queues, compared to in-progress.

DPS queues are such because of the bigger number of players playing DPS compared to tank or healer, but ultimately tanks fishing for queues, do not solve this problem, they make it worse. It is bad enough as is, separate queues is a step backwards.

[YuriRamona]

It's really saddening to see that we can't simply be decent human beings, play the game, think about others. No, no reward and everyone else can die in a gutter. Apparently we need incentives to help people.

Duty Roulette was invented as a means for newbie to get help running dungeons, since nobody does those dungeons and they need it for story dungeons. No reward = let the newbies rot in a corner. This is bad enough in Main Scenario, where people go in, heckle others to skip cutscenes, simply because they want their reward.

Your example is perfect. If the player community was really so willing to help other players without being encouraged by an incentive, then we wouldn't have needed the duty roulette in the first place. We'd see experienced players clicking on each of the lower level dungeons manually and jumping in to the queue without the duty roulette bonus.

Obviously, that didn't happen. And it wouldn't happen, because people simply aren't altruistic.

Do I wish that we didn't need incentives for people to be nice to each other? Of course.

Do I think selfishness will disappear if we just sit down and wish it away? Not a chance.

Yes, throw the newbies under the bus. Throw the unfortunate players who decided that their life calling was to play DPS under the bus.

So apparently, you have the freedom of action to fish for queues, but other people don't have the freedom of action to play a class they want? Contradictory much?

I don't think you're understanding my post at all.

There is no such thing as a "life calling" to play DPS. Players weren't born with an orientation towards playing the DPS roles. Players make a conscious decision to play something that they know (or soon realize while leveling up) is an over-popular and undesired role for party content (i.e. a vast majority of this game.

I never said you do not have the "freedom of action" to play DPS. Of course you can.

I only object to the idea that the problems shared by DPS players (long queues and being victims of fishers) is the net result of their own choice to play DPS, and no other reason. The nature of their collective existence is what produces these so-called "problems" they encounter.

Players in these roles do not have the right to have their complaints addressed when the problem is created by them and can only be solved by themselves.

It is the optimal, best-case-scenario for ONE in 4/8/24 other players. Unless you can show it's beneficial to all party members, which it is clearly not, otherwise such threads wouldn't exist - instead, you'd see more threads praising the fishers. Keep in mind that there's a larger number of fresh queues, compared to in-progress.

DPS queues are such because of the bigger number of players playing DPS compared to tank or healer, but ultimately tanks fishing for queues, do not solve this problem, they make it worse. It is bad enough as is, separate queues is a step backwards.

Having players join in-progress parties that are the furthest progressed in a dungeon is the best-case solution. It benefits one player greatly because they can skip the previous content, and the rest of the alliance because they very likely need to fill out their party. I'm sure you've been in a situation where you're standing around waiting to begin at the entrance of Behemoth, Acheron, etc waiting for the last tank or healer to join in. How is it possibly not beneficial to everyone to prioritize this 2/4 or 3/4 progress alliance to the top of the queue, and for fishers to actively seek those alliances?

Fishers are absolutely in the right here, because they are needed the most by parties who are hung up waiting to fill up their alliance.

There is no problem in the system. The only "problem" is the complaining by players who are frustrated by clicking on commence duty and having others withdraw. Again, read my previous post to see how this is a problem generated by the imbalance of roles and the active choice of individuals to play undesired roles.

[Tiraelina]

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You know what? Those groups will still get filled up with or without you being able to see if its in progress and without a dedicated queue. If you don't like it stick to Party Finder or learn to cooperate with your fellow players that are just so insufferable you can't bear being in a full run with. The game isn't going to bend over for you because you want a shortcut.

[Doo]

You know what? Those groups will still get filled up with or without you being able to see if its in progress and without a dedicated queue. If you don't like it stick to Party Finder or learn to cooperate with your fellow players that are just so insufferable you can't bear being in a full run with. The game isn't going to bend over for you because you want a shortcut.

Exactly lol. Queue fishers acting like they are doing some noble deed when all they are trying to do is cheat the system. Make it blind queue so it would be a luck factor whether you get a chance at faster farming or not while helping others in the process.

[YuriRamona]

You know what? Those groups will still get filled up with or without you being able to see if its in progress and without a dedicated queue. If you don't like it stick to Party Finder or learn to cooperate with your fellow players that are just so insufferable you can't bear being in a full run with. The game isn't going to bend over for you because you want a shortcut.

I don't understand why you would not only want to take away shortcuts for players who are playing desired roles, but asking players who are selfish to abandon the duty finder.

If we are so incensed about the problem of queue fishing and long queues in general, why would we want to marginalize players who are in it for the loot (i.e. the vast majority of players)? Are we really so convinced, despite the overwhelming evidence not only in this game but other MMOs, that players are really willing to help out just for the sake of helping out?

I can't tell if you're incredibly short-sighted or just completely ignorant of the reality: either you need to cater ("bend over") for players in desired roles, or greatly discourage people from imbalancing the role make-up (punishing DPS).

We can't have our cake (have everyone play DPS) and eat it too (expect everything to work smoothly for DPS and punish non-DPS for expecting incentives).

This is ultimately what it boils down to. Stop blaming queue fishers for trying to reap a benefit they deserve. If you want queue fishing to stop, either stop playing DPS or start playing tanks and healers.

[Tiraelina]

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I've been playing a tank since I started these games. You are not a special snowflake. You don't deserve anything. This has nothing to do with DPS queues. Posts like yours are just reinforcing the need to shut down this behaviour.

[YuriRamona]

I've been playing a tank since I started these games. You are not a special snowflake. You don't deserve anything. This has nothing to do with DPS queues. Posts like yours are just reinforcing the need to shut down this behaviour.

This has everything to do with DPS queues. Granted, balancing role population would not eliminate in-progress fishing. However, if tanks (and to a lesser extent, healers) did not get instant queues, then they would not fish as often or agressively. And the reason that fishers get instant queues is because of the role imbalance due primarily to a preponderance of DPS players.

Players who play desired roles such as tanks and healers can and should be encouraged with incentives.

I never said I was a "special snowflake" and deserved anything. The personal attacks are not appreciated. Just because I'm defending others doesn't mean I'm inviting character attacks. Let's debate the issue and not each other's motivations.

Your personal anecdote is certainly valid. However, I contend that more people would play tanks (and still be cooperative, nice players) if we gave them more incentives. Although you don't need more incentives to continue playing a tank, other players do.

[Tiraelina]

This has everything to do with DPS queues. Granted, balancing role population would not eliminate in-progress fishing. However, if tanks (and to a lesser extent, healers) did not get instant queues, then they would not fish as often or agressively. And the reason that fishers get instant queues is because of the role imbalance due primarily to a preponderance of DPS players.

Players who play desired roles such as tanks and healers can and should be encouraged with incentives.

I never said I was a "special snowflake" and deserved anything. The personal attacks are not appreciated. Just because I'm defending others doesn't mean I'm inviting character attacks. Let's debate the issue and not each other's motivations.

Your personal anecdote is certainly valid. However, I contend that more people would play tanks (and still be cooperative, nice players) if we gave them more incentives. Although you don't need more incentives to continue playing a tank, other players do.

Here an actual personal attack (from you).

I can't tell if you're incredibly short-sighted or just completely ignorant of the reality

Here's the special snowflake.

need to cater ("bend over") for players in desired roles

Here's the idea you deserve anything for a role.

reap a benefit they deserve

You know what would happen if they hid in progress dungeons? Life would go on, just like it already is in other games. Games that have the same role imbalances. Games that didn't need separated queues to fix a problem that only exists because you can see its in progress.

There's little if any discussion coming from you. Just inflated self worth over a role that doesn't want a problem fixed because:

It's risky enough to use the duty finder and landing in a bad alliance that has at least progressed halfway or more; it's even worse to risk the chance of joining a bad alliance that has to start from the beginning.

Welcome to online games, enjoy your stay!