Warrior Tanking

[bokchoykn]

Pulling - Multiple Targets

A point I totally disagree on is your use of Flash and your methodology for handling AoE aggro.

• When it comes to enmity-per-GCD, Overpower vastly outperforms Flash. If your aim is to gain maximum snap-enmity when establishing aggro multiple mobs, Overpower is always the superior choice. That early aggro is critical, and you want to seal it with Overpower as soon as possible.
  
• Overpower also has many other benefits that Flash doesn't. It actually deals damage, it scales with gear, it can crit and it benefits from Maim, Unchained, Berserk, Internal Release. Each time you use Flash over Overpower, you're missing out on significant AoE damage.
  
• One benefit Flash has over Overpower is that it's omnidirectional and will hit multiple mobs in situations where Overpower may not. However, Warriors have another ability that is omnidirectional: Steel Cyclone. It has the same range as Flash, generates way more enmity, it actually deals damage and benefits from Maim/Berserk/Internal Release.
  
• The only time you'd want to use Flash is to start the pull in situations where mobs are too spread out for Overpower and you want to spend the Infuriate/ Wrath stacks on something other than Steel Cyclone, such as Inner Beast or Unchained. I find these situations to be rare, but WP Speed Runs and Turn 4 are such examples where you want that Inner Beast for the damage reduction instead of using Steel Cyclone.
  
• If you must start with Flash, you only need to cast it once. Get that initial aggro, take a couple steps in any direction to gather the mobs a bit, and start Overpowering.
  
• Aside from that, the only time you want to use Flash is if you need to hold multiple mobs and you really need to conserve TP. The only situations that fits this description for me is the fourth phase in Turn 4 (Rooks + Spiders). In any case, you still want at least a 2-3 Overpowers here.

Anyway, the only encounters where I spend Flash on one of my cross-class skills is for:
-4-man dungeons
-Garuda EX (for rare situation where I need to take back the Spiny without using Provoke and without causing damage to the Spiny)
-Coil Turn 4.

For everything else in the game, I don't bother cross-classing Flash. In light of the upgrades to Overpower (animation speed & enmity) it's not nearly as necessary as this guide implies.

[Kitru]

[*]Overpower also has many other benefits that Flash doesn't. It actually deals damage, it scales with gear, it can crit and it benefits from Maim, Unchained, Berserk, Internal Release. Each time you use Flash over Overpower, you're missing out on significant AoE damage.

Flash does scale with gear. There is some fairly compelling evidence that it scales with weapon damage (and FoF, which is +dam) as well, so it's a bit fallacious to claim that it doesn't scale or benefit from any number of CDs. The only one that makes a reasonable case for not working with Flash is Internal Release because we're pretty sure that Flash can't crit (meaning that it generates 50% more enmity). Flash is pretty poorly understood because it doesn't provide explicit numbers, but it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be and benefits from a fair deal more than you give it credit for.

That aside, I agree with you on the relative uselessness of Flash, though I probably think it's less useful than you believe since I don't even bring it for the 3 cases you brought up.

[bokchoykn]

snip.

You're right. I should have said "scaled better with gear". Yes, Flash scales with weapon damage (probably the Magic Damage stat) and apparently nothing else. I've confirmed this in Turn 4 via the reflect damage I take when hitting Clockwork Knights with Flash. I don't know if this can be considered hard evidence, but I think it's pretty conclusive.

The rest of your post is pretty contradictory. Flash is not nearly as bad as I make it out to be but you probably think it's less useful than I believe? Alright, then.

For the record, I don't think Flash is bad. I'm not making it out to be bad at all. I think it's a great skill. It's just a testament as to how good Overpower is. Overpower is crazy good now, especially with the enmity boost from the 2.1 patch.

[Kitru]

The rest of your post is pretty contradictory. Flash is not nearly as bad as I make it out to be but you probably think it's less useful than I believe? Alright, then.

It's not contradictory. It's a slight dichotomy, but nothing more. While it's not as bad as you described it to be, but it's still bad, which is what I interpreted you as describing it. The fact that I think it's basically worthless because of the other available options that render it redundant is unrelated to the description of its capabilities in a vacuum.

[Paikis]

You're right. I should have said "scaled better with gear". Yes, Flash scales with weapon damage (probably the Magic Damage stat) and apparently nothing else. I've confirmed this in Turn 4 via the reflect damage I take when hitting Clockwork Knights with Flash. I don't know if this can be considered hard evidence, but I think it's pretty conclusive.

Do we know that you get 1 point of damage back for 1 point of hate, or is it just a set amount of damage you take for each spell cast? I don't play a caster, so I've never really noticed.

[bokchoykn]

Do we know that you get 1 point of damage back for 1 point of hate, or is it just a set amount of damage you take for each spell cast? I don't play a caster, so I've never really noticed.

The damage reflected is how much you would have done, but for some reason it happens with Flash too.

Me and another Paladin took the same amount of damage from it despite that our gear was different. We had Curtana in common.

Then when he +1'ed his Curtana and I didn't, he took more damage from it.

One can only assume that the amount of damage is proportionate to the enmity generated by flash.

[LordTiberiusRex]

Rotations - Maintenance
I've put this in here because it is expected, and not because there actually are any real rotations as such. Warrior rotations are not so much a list of combos that you use one after the other, but are more a priority list. You want to maintain agro first and foremost, with Storm's Path being the next most important, followed by Storm's Eye. With that said, it is almost impossible to create a rotation as such. There are a few sequences of combos that do get used often though, and they can go here.

Question: I have pulled the mob and I now have aggro. What combos should I use after I pull?

While I would like to throw many combos out, I'll stick with a sequence that focuses on using all 3 combos: BB, SP, & SE.
Ask yourself these questions each time going from 1 to 3; you will find deciding what to use after the pull much easier.
(Aggro = agro = threat = enmity)

Main Tank:
1. Do I risk losing aggro to another party member on my target?
Yes: Use a Butcher's Block combo.
No: Proceed to 2.

2. Does my target have the damage reduction debuff applied?
Yes: Proceed to 3.
No: Use a Storm's Path combo.

3. Does my target have the slashing resistance debuff applied?
Yes: Use any combo you want (apply debuffs if they're about to run out via SP/SE or gain extra aggro/do more damage via BB)
No: Use a Storm's Eye combo.

Note from the Poster: It is another way of looking at the "priority list" Paikis mentions earlier in this section.
Disclaimer: This method may not work for everyone, and if there is another way that works better for you I encourage you to use that instead.

Off-tank:
Quite literally, a rotation between SP/SE to keep debuffs up on the target.
Start with SE first though, so both you and the main-tank can gain more aggro/do more damage with their attacks.
Be sure to have Provoke/tomahawk ready to use in case an add slips, MT dies, or you need to tank swap.

[Paikis]

You moved Flash to the "optional" category and replaced it with Internal Release, but you didn't change the commentary/explanations. Might be a bit confusing for someone reading it from scratch to see the Internal Release being discussed in how it related to Berserk and Overpower.

Fixed, thank you. I'm honestly thinking the last two slots should be set as 'pick whatever you like' because Internal Release is a really minor damage buff (5% for 15 seconds).

P.S. @Paikis, could you reformat the layout so that way it looks a little more reader-friendly? (Here's an example: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...mpendium-2.0.1) (This is targeted primarily at the "Abilities List" and "Best in Slot" section of the guide (1. There should also be a notice that the number before the skill means the level you get it at & 2. Add in a picture like how the link does for the BiS; not only is it a visual, it shows you exactly what stats are there for each item and the sum of them))

I have reformatted the abilities section to highlight the ability names. I don't like what Griever has done with his formatting though, as empty lines between every ability just seems like so much unneeded bloat. I've also made up some nice tables to match the ones in Griever's PLD guide (mostly because I'm lazy) and will add those in at some point. I also want to do a more comprehensive section on gearing because at the moment all that I have is 2 lists and a couple points. Something on Bravura Zenith vs Dual Haken perhaps, though that really is a no-brainer.

It's interesting just how adamant people on reddit are that Bravura Zenith is a waste of Tomes. I got mine as my first myth upgrade way back when, so perhaps I'm not the best person to be asking, but I've never regretted it. What do you folks think?

[JonBigwood]

[*]The only time you'd want to use Flash is to start the pull in situations where mobs are too spread out for Overpower and you want to spend the Infuriate/ Wrath stacks on something other than Steel Cyclone, such as Inner Beast or Unchained. I find these situations to be rare, but WP Speed Runs and Turn 4 are such examples where you want that Inner Beast for the damage reduction instead of using Steel Cyclone.

In Titan HM, I suppose you don't repeat it much :-), if you flash before each Mountain Buster, you may dodge 2, 3 or more if the fight lasts long enough (it does last if you kill him.) This makes a difference.
One thing you are not taking into account is that flash has the blind effect that against some mobs makes it much more likely that you dodge the attacks. It is not just to gain enmity, although we normally use it for that. I think most of us (PLD included) use flash less than it would be ideal, we forget about it except when it is very clear we need it (PLD don't have Overpower so Flash is much more needed.) I am leveling Marauder and I love Overpower a lot.

[Kitru]

One thing you are not taking into account is that flash has the blind effect that against some mobs makes it much more likely that you dodge the attacks.

Only the GLA/PLD version of Flash has the blind on it. For MRD/WAR, it only provides enmity.