Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

[Magis]

Factually innaccurate, if you look at the sales and subs between FFXI vs WoW vs FFXIV. This "WoW clone" is what people want. Don't mistake because there is a vocal minority that they are, in fact, the majority.

If you want something else, buy something else. Let your money talk.

FFXI came out when MMOs were new, and it's population was standard. It actually had a larger population than the great Everquest which had waaay more exposure and fame in the media. WoW was different to the new MMOs, and due to it's accessibility, scored a jackpot. You can't even compare the two, because only WoW saw such an increase in population. People didn't play because they liked MMOs, people played because they liked WoW.

ARR or any MMO isn't going to see the same population as WoW, no matter how much they copy it. However it should be built so that the players always have something to do and grind, so that they can keep the numbers they have. The gameplay of sitting in a town and teleporting into a dungeon all day isn't going to do that.

[Gideon]

FFXI came out when MMOs were new, and it's population was standard. It actually had a larger population than the great Everquest which had waaay more exposure and fame in the media. WoW was different to the new MMOs, and due to it's accessibility, scored a jackpot. You can't even compare the two. If anything, you can see that until they changed the formula to be more "modern" FFXI held it's population for years.

Again, completely inaccurate. Do you guys just make up these "facts" to support your claims? At their peaks, Everquest had nearly double the subscriptions of FFXI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_F..._subscriptions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest

The truth of the matter is FFXI wasnt a very popular game by any terms. Its been profitable to Square due to its longevity and loyal fan base. Unfortunately a lot of that loyal fan base has come over the FFXIV expecting the same game and are now some of the "vocal minority" you see on the forums now.

[Magis]

Again, completely inaccurate. Do you guys just make up these "facts" to support your claims? At their peaks, Everquest had nearly double the subscriptions of FFXI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_F..._subscriptions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest

The truth of the matter is FFXI wasnt a very popular game by any terms. Its been profitable to Square due to its longevity and loyal fan base. Unfortunately a lot of that loyal fan base has come over the FFXIV expecting the same game and are now some of the "vocal minority" you see on the forums now.

Wut...

[Ishmachiah]

The truth of the matter is FFXI wasnt a very popular game by any terms. Its been profitable to Square due to its longevity and loyal fan base. Unfortunately a lot of that loyal fan base has come over the FFXIV expecting the same game and are now some of the "vocal minority" you see on the forums now.

This. 100% this. FFXI is no longer the game they enjoyed so many years ago and that should tell them something. The gaming world has changed and the game they idolise doesn't want to be what it was anymore. FFXI players were not tossed aside, nor were they kicked to the curb. The game they love is still running, adapt to what it is now or stop playing MMOs altogether.

You know... After reading through 75 pages of this thread. I can say with confidence that FFXIV would of been better off, had the players from FFXI stayed where they were.

[Gramul]

This. 100% this. FFXI is no longer the game they enjoyed so many years ago and that should tell them something.

That it changed from having a strong hold on a niche market to turning into something almost no one wants?

[Velhart]

That it changed from having a strong hold on a niche market to turning into something almost no one wants?

(My post here isn't pointed towards you, just using it as a basis for discussion.)

It is fine and dandy if players do not enjoy ARR's direction, but I see a lot in this thread that people wanted FFXIV to be their answer to a new game because FFXI has made some questionable decisions. What I ask is, why are people trying so hard to change the foundation of a successful game when you would have a much better shot by jumping into the FFXI forums and convincing developers you want the older style of play back? It makes sense, FFXI I don't think is exactly gaining many subscribers and it is held together by it's long time fan base. I don't know how SE thinks, but under common sense, you should be catering to the small fanbase they have left of the game, who are mostly veterans of the game.

Dood... they are all WoW clones, that's the problem, we are completely over it, we don't want to play anymore WoW rip offs.
FFXI was a better game IMO because it was completely different to WoW and I dislike WoW.

So just because it is different, automatically makes it a better game? Okay.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Instead we got Final World of Rift Wars Fantasy Craft XIV.

Cute name. Funny you expect developers to be completely original in design. With FFXI players, you put up a "damned if you do, damned if you don't situation". Where if this game based itself directly from FFXI's style, people would scream "FFXI clone". You make an MMO that does meet modern day standards, you scream "WoW clone". Which leads me to a fair conclusion that people don't know what they want, all they know is what they don't want.

[Doo]

What I ask is, why are people trying so hard to change the foundation of a successful game when you would have a much better shot by jumping into the FFXI forums and convincing developers you want the older style of play back?

Because many foundations of a successful game went f2p in a year and I don't even consider it trying so hard. The devs do what they want to do the forums are just for discussion. What I see more is players get scared that the devs might listen to a certain group so they try to belittle their opinions.

I can say with confidence that FFXIV would been better off, had the Players from WoW stayed where they were. /trolling end.

That might be true. They are probably known to hop from one hyped mmo to the next in search of the next mmo that is similar to WoW.

[Velhart]

Because many foundations of a successful game went f2p in a year and I don't even consider it trying so hard. The devs do what they want to do the forums are just for discussion. What I see more is players get scared that the devs might listen to a certain group so they try to belittle their opinions.

Highly doubtful, especially since the game is in a successful state that was way beyond developer expectations. You don't seem to really have a base of argument besides other MMO's. It is the quality and frequency of content that makes or breaks an MMO, not because it used elements from another MMO.

SE themselves said numerous times that F2P model is not an option, especially since it is a self-funded game. Other MMO's go F2P because they overestimate the amount they are bringing in, and doing so cannot pay their investors, so they go F2P to get that quick cash and pay off their investors. SE does not have investors backing up their game, all funds on ARR came out of their own pocket. F2P doesn't mean a game has failed, it means on the business side they overestimated their sales and bit them in the ass. These failing F2P games people refer to last I call are still going strong. Aion, Tera, SW:TOR, GW2, they all have a good sized population to keep them up and running for many years.

[Duelle]

That it changed from having a strong hold on a niche market to turning into something almost no one wants?

"No one" as in, "Me, me, me, me, oh and me"? You could at least own up to it being your opinion, much like how I'd prefer this game to stay as far away from FFXI as possible.

There is plenty Square Enix could have done to save that game, the game still had massive amounts of potential, even if they did want to over hawl the game I don't believe it would have been impossible to keep the playing style. Instead of doing what they do best they just took the cheap easy way out, sad to say but all I see is a quick fix to get a quick buck.

You're veering towards "different for the sake of being different". That's the undertone of your entire post, regardless of whether you meant to or not.

1.0 at launch was obviously incomplete. I figure it would have played out like The Secret World's system with weapon abilities and traits that when combined a certain way become Decks (Jobs) -- nevermind that specific custom builds far outclassed decks. What that would have done in the long run is really anyone's guess.

Yea it sucks so much it is still active and producing expansions. EQ and FFXI have stayed around longer than WoW has been around. You know why?

The reason people stick to those games is their inability to let go of something they've put hours into. Old school MMOs that required a ton of time to progress counted on this unhealthy attachment as part of their formula for retaining players.

[NovaUltimatum]

Of course it wouldn't happen, but I often wonder if FFXI got remade whether it would boom or bust and more importantly why it would do so.

I'm assuming the reason most people have left the current servers is because of a host of reasons including depopulating servers, old graphics and repetitive designs. If all those problems were fixed would it be enough to keep the game going strong?

Some people have said that in the present era we have now, we have less time to dedicate for one game than when FFXI launched. Is that true for everyone or just those who had lots of time in the previous decade? Also, if it's the case that everyone has less time to put into things they enjoy then why is that the case? Global recession causing people to work more? Or does today's gaming community just not have enough patience / attention-span to stick to one game?