A few ideas to improve the WHM from a SCH player

[Vrmillion]

It feels like everyone in the forums replied to what I posted, so I'm only picking a few things to specifically respond to so as to not waste everyone's time.

Aldo and succor raises effective health, regen does not.

Regen auto-heals damage over a long period of time, meaning you don't need to spend time healing someone if you throw one regen on and they're not taking much further damage. Succor blocks 300ish damage once, Regen heals 300ish damage every few seconds.

Keep in mind you are at the top of the food chain, you have nearly 5k mana and enough gear that cure gets the job done. Your mana regen does scale with your mana pool. I certainly don't regen 105 mp every tick. And having enough gear that you only need cure isn't a smarter choice, but rather an option you have at your gear level.

If you need only a ds cure to heal a tank after death sentence,either your sch is very good or your entire raid outgears the content.

Yes, that is the case right now. When we killed Twintania in 7-8ish pieces of i90 some 6 or 7 weeks ago, all of these presumptions were not the case.

I don't think anyone is saying whm's are bad, or unable to clear content. And the raid heals are certainly in a class of their own. But as I've said before a few qol changes would help.

1:Benedicition is outclassed by lustrate. Moreso due to client/server issues/animation delay. A fix would be fine, imo a change would be better.
2. Fairy outclasses regen due to regen requiring a gcd per cast which I imagine is part of the op's point. If regen is too powerful to be off the gcd entirely then change medica 2. If we are to be forced to rely on hots for topup and small raid heals remove the burst and lower the cost to compensate.

I agree certain QOL changes would be nice, but I also don't feel they're necessary. Benediction is outclassed by lustrate, yes, but then Succor is outclassed by Medica 2, Physick has no procs to make Adlo free like Cure has procs to make Cure 2 free, and the fairy healing buff / aoe regen are both weaker and on a much longer cooldown than the WHM equivalents. It's give and take.

I personally also like regen more than Eos. Regen is basically free, being only 180ish MP. It's refunded in 2 ticks of natural mana regen no matter what gear you're in, and healers don't stand there chaining casts like a BLM anyway.

What is the mp cost of Embrace and Lustrate?
Healing for zero mana is very mana efficient...

Lustrate has a resource cost. Divine Seal Regen heals enough that you can stand there for 6 seconds and get all your MP back, making it virtually a 0 cost as well, and it continues to heal for another 15 seconds afterwards.

Whm does not have any constant free healing they use mana all the time compared to sch.

Freecure comes up quite a lot actually. And again, Regen is 180ish MP for 21 seconds of constant healing. Do you not understand how incredibly efficient that is?

Why is sch forced to adloquium but the whm can get by on cure ?

Cure 2 costs less and heals more than Adlo's heal + shield combined anyway.

Remember adloquium can crit shield for 2.5k+ which reduces the need for healing and migitates boss high damage skills.
Crits from cure 2 will just overheal. Overhealing is wasted mana.

Spends most of it's time overhealing.

Yes I get it, Adlo is great and converts overhealing to shields. Regen also converts overhealing to future damage healed at no extra cost. Regen basically erases a boss's autoattacks, and provides future healing, like Adlo shields future damage. I don't give a shit if my 180 MP move overheals with 400 of its potency and then heals something for the remaining 650 potency. I don't even give a shit if it overheals 800 potency. It's such a low cost that i'm not wasting any MP in the first place, and the boss will always be autoattacking, which Regen completely takes care of. And if the tank gets a big hit, Regen isn't overhealing anything any more. It actually overheals far less than you seem to believe, considering the boss's autoattacks. In fact, if there was a skill similar to Pacification, except it was "The target can no longer use autoattacks for 21 seconds" and had no cooldown and a ridiculously low MP cost, it sounds pretty good, right? It would mitigate so much damage. Regen is even better than that.

Play both whm and sch. Try to heal,dps and res. Go oom as whm but remain near 100% mp as sch. Proof is in the pudding.

I heal, dps, and res as WHM all the time. As I said in my first post, throwing out Raises is the only time I go oom because I don't have the mana regeneration that Scholars do. Healing and DPSing at the same time barely moves my MP bar, and hasn't in a very long time. Oh, and I also have SCH at 50.

From your profile, I see you have loot from Twintania as well as a weapon from killing all the extreme primals, so it would seem that your raid is playing correctly, and not just you. While it would be great to assume the conditions you describe for every healer out there, unfortunately many of the rest of us have to heal through more substantial player error and sub-optimal tank gear, etc. For the purposes you describe, WHM can often not spare the GCD to use a regen instead of a more direct heal.

Again, this is a product of being overgeared and likely pertains to healing demands for a well- or over-qualified raid for current content. Having your efficiency be gear dependent to that extent makes the class itself internally imbalanced.

See above. I have loot from Twintania and EX primal staff, but I didn't create my character with these items. I struggled through all the content that everyone else did, except in even worse gear than most people, since we didn't have the gear drops and myth weeks/months ago that people do now going through this content.

[sharazisspecial]

I heal, dps, and res as WHM all the time. As I said in my first post, throwing out Raises is the only time I go oom because I don't have the mana regeneration that Scholars do. Healing and DPSing at the same time barely moves my MP bar, and hasn't in a very long time. Oh, and I also have SCH at 50.

You are BSing here i could show you a video of a full ilvl90 whm with allagan cane go oom just from stone2 spamming and a regen + medica 2 every so often. Do the math and you will see how much mana total whm has to use and has available in comparison to sch

Whm go oom if they don't idle. Just as you mentioned how you idle in your "regen 300hp every 3 seconds is enough to heal tank damage all by itself point" Nope lol, its your sch thats healing the tank while you are idling. 300hp every 3 second is no where near enough in any serious tank healing situation. The healing from regen is delayed and it takes a gcd. Which is a lull is healing received for the target. Regen has its uses but it overheals alot. To pass cure in healing it needs to do 4/7 ticks. Regen also costs 50% more mana then cure and cannot proc free cure! Its a nice buffer but not a spell that you can rely on or is optimal to do so at all.

Leaving people low and letting them tick up works only in select situations and it relies on people being perfect which is the worst thing to do . It may cause a preventable death, especially in new or cutting edge content. Having people die when you as a healer could of prevented it is imo the sign of a bad healer. I'd rather spend a little more mana getting them full. Besides lol if someone is safe enough that they can enjoy regen, Why even cast it on them in the first place? Just let your sch embrace them, and save the mana cost of regen (Teamwork!). There is no guarantee that regen will do meaningful healing or will just end up overhealing.

If im not using divine seal for HPS and i am using it for mana saving. I would rather use divine seal with aoe heal so i don't have cast another. Much more mana saved then adding +100hp onto a overhealing regen spell.

Anyway Vrmillion i said the problem with whm is that they have to idle alot more then sch. Regening targets encourage idling...

[Samsta]

So what you're saying

I just find it funny how you worded that sentence, like "everyone knows whm is the only job that is shit". Having not played the scholar I don't know the difference, but I personally have never had any thoughts about changing this matter, I have always thought that that's how its supposed to be, you were not meant to heal the entire party if everybody keeps eating aoes and dying all the time. I think it is supposed to be this way so I can't just heal everybody when they make a lot of mistakes, whats the point of those mechanics if I could just heal through them all? Right now we can easily heal through many mistakes and unnecessary damage, but I think a cap was put there on purpose. Again I don't know what scholars can do so if scholars can do that it's a whole different story. But these are my views on this matter, and I might be wrong.

[sharazisspecial]

I think it is supposed to be this way so I can't just heal everybody when they make a lot of mistakes

If AoE was not meant to be healed.
Why even bring a whm at all then? Or even 2 healers for most situations. Just have everyone dodge everything like perfect robots!

If things were supposed to OHKO they would do so. Healer would be doing jack all, dpsing or ressing majority of the fight if most avoidable damage was supposed to ko.

There is also a middle ground. Eating multiple plumes in titan ex results in ko, eating 1 results in 50% lost. Nearly all multi-landslides results in a ko or knocked off so that is clearly meant to be something that kos.

if I could just heal through them all? Right now we can easily heal through many mistakes and unnecessary damage

Maybe not healing quick enough through the aoe damage is the "healer's mistake"? That is how I see it.

[Thunderz]

snip

What she said,

I heal, DPS all the time and the best example I can bring up is on Garuda EX. There is enough "serious healing" downtime that I can let the SCH heal while I go to town. Its rough on my MP pool it really is and when I push it too hard I end up having to idle for MP or ask for a mage song (which totally defeats the purpose of me DPS'ing if I lower my brds dmg doing so)

Also there is no such thing "being a pro WHM is how you Manage your MP". Of course there is the obvious thing and the wasteful spells but outside of that the only factor determining how much MP you spend is how much DMG your party is taking which is totally out of your control.

After the patch essentially making Medica 2 a thrash spell, when I heal BC Turn 5 I switched up my Raid heals on fireball to Cure III... a spell that heals more than medica II but doesn't top off your party member T.T I hate it

When I use Cure III on Titan EX, too much threat (having to drop hate) or a moron that moves out of range

While SCH can DPS 24/7 while his pixie heals and never go OOM (and lets not forget barely build any hate whatsoever)

Only thing that is working in WHM favor is cure II spam.

[Avette]

Again I don't know what scholars can do so if scholars can do that it's a whole different story. But these are my views on this matter, and I might be wrong.

Scholars can do that. It's a whole different story. You might be wrong.

[Vrmillion]

You are BSing here i could show you a video of a full ilvl90 whm with allagan cane go oom just from stone2 spamming and a regen + medica 2 every so often. Do the math and you will see how much mana total whm has to use and has available in comparison to sch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syQ1f...ature=youtu.be

Here's a video of me DPSing a target dummy while also keeping Regen up near permanently, with no break from casting. There's some lag towards the end because my internet is bad. It took me 6 minutes and 15 seconds of constant casting to go oom, which is far longer than any boss requires one to continuously DPS and heal at the same time.

For added fun, I made a video of me spamming heals with no break to see how long it takes me to go oom. Keep in mind that no healer ever has to heal this frequently, and has ample time to take a breather and recover MP in even the most intense fights, or rely on the other healer. It still took me 4 minutes and 34 seconds.

By the way, I never said WHM had better MP management than SCH. I don't know why everyone keeps saying I did. Everyone was saying WHM sucks at MP, and I disagreed. However (and I don't claim to be the best scholar), I also added even more fun of my 50 scholar spamming heals until oom. It took me 3 minutes and 30 seconds to run out of mana, with Aetherflow coming back up soon, but my hard drive ran out of space. Though to be fair, an extra 899 MP probably wouldn't have lasted another minute and 4 seconds.

Just as you mentioned how you idle in your "regen 300hp every 3 seconds is enough to heal tank damage all by itself point" Nope lol, its your sch thats healing the tank while you are idling. 300hp every 3 second is no where near enough in any serious tank healing situation. The healing from regen is delayed and it takes a gcd. Which is a lull is healing received for the target. Regen has its uses but it overheals alot. To pass cure in healing it needs to do 4/7 ticks. Regen also costs 50% more mana then cure and cannot proc free cure! Its a nice buffer but not a spell that you can rely on or is optimal to do so at all.

First, I said Regen counteracts boss autoattacks, not everything. I said Divine Seal Regen heals mostly everything except big hits like Mountain Buster and Death Sentence. It doesn't act right away which is why you apply it before the tank takes damage. As in, you keep it up constantly, which is only common sense. Furthermore, regen only needs 3/7 ticks because 3 x 150 is 450, which is more than 400. Going on more, yes, Regen costs 50% more than a cure, for 260% more healing. Regen is also 186mp for as much as Cure 1 plus Cure 2 combined, which is 400 MP. You can rely on this spell until the end of time.

Leaving people low and letting them tick up works only in select situations and it relies on people being perfect which is the worst thing to do . It may cause a preventable death, especially in new or cutting edge content. Having people die when you as a healer could of prevented it is imo the sign of a bad healer. I'd rather spend a little more mana getting them full. Besides lol if someone is safe enough that they can enjoy regen, Why even cast it on them in the first place? Just let your sch embrace them, and save the mana cost of regen (Teamwork!). There is no guarantee that regen will do meaningful healing or will just end up overhealing.

You assume that I *only* use regen on people. No, if someone's in danger of dying, then I cure them. If someone eats a weight in Titan and there's 30 more seconds until Tumults, then I'm throwing a regen on them instead of wasting 2 GCDs and double the mana to cure 2 them twice. There are different situations in this game, and not everyone is in danger of dying all the time. You cast regen to heal them when they're not in danger, but they could be again soon. That's like saying why even cure a tank if he's just gonna take damage again? Also I can't seem to repeat this enough that Regen is a paltry amount of MP to spend. It literally makes almost no difference, so there's no MP to "save" by not casting it. Especially when it's the most cost effective heal WHMs have by far.

If im not using divine seal for HPS and i am using it for mana saving. I would rather use divine seal with aoe heal so i don't have cast another. Much more mana saved then adding +100hp onto a overhealing regen spell.

Do you even know how Divine Seal works? You don't only use one skill with it. There's absolutely no reason to not throw up a regen while it's up and you're curing other people. It's also a 1min cooldown so you barely even need to save it for anything.

[Rigsta]

We could do with PoM getting made useful[...]

Why does everyone say PoM is useless? The cooldown's too long (imo) but I get quite a bit of use out of it. I find it very helpful when people are too spread out for an AE heal to be effective, for firing off multiple regens/cures after a medica II, or heck any situation where casting faster is desirable. If the cooldown stays as-is I'd like its duration to be a second or two longer to make up for the animation delay.

It's certainly situational, but certainly not useless.

My only real gripe about WHM - other than benediction lag - is Cure III's tiny radius. I just can't get much use out of an AE heal that can't even reach the melee behind the boss when I cast it on the tank, despite how much it heals for.

Maybe my view on it will change over time; I've only been lv50 for 3 days.

People also keep mentioning threat. Can't say it's been a problem for me.

[Nullie]

Why does everyone say PoM is useless?

Because it pretty much is. Because you may use it every so often doesn't make it good. I use it a lot and I still think it is pretty useless. The cool down is one of the main reasons why it is. 3 minutes for 10 seconds (8ish actually) makes it something you really want to use at certain times. Even with a good chunk of spell speed gear the cast time isn't reduced by that much. You get around an extra cast or possibly two in that time and then you're locked out from using it for 3 minutes.

One of the best times I've found to use it is when Fey Glow is up. Fey Glow increases spell speed, hits everyone in range, last 30 seconds and has a minute cool down. Compare that to PoM. You can see which is clearly superior. Now together, I have almost second cast times, but I'm not healing during that point because the scholar is main healing and doesn't need me with my regen and I can get a good amount of dps in so little time. If your Scholar is playing with Selene and Fey Glow is up and any bad scenario is going at that time then it could be quite helpful, but when your group gets this big massive amount of damage will your first thought be to get your PoM up first or will it be to heal them asap? When you become established to a certain group of people who know what they are doing then it is just a skill that sits there and maybe gets used once or twice a fight.

I don't want skills to be "situational." Starting to really dislike that word. Benediction is a situational skill that isn't even that due to the cast time. PoM shouldn't be. It should be better. What I would like is for the time to be increased, cool down reduced and possibly spell cost reduced by half/completely while PoM is up. Comparing Fey Glow, it makes me wonder what were they thinking at the time? "Fey Glow: Lasts 30 seconds, buffs everyone in range and has a 1 minute cool down. PoM: Ehh, Lets make it 10 seconds on the user only and give it a 3 minute cool down." Sounds pretty even if you ask me. Bleh.

[LiadansWhisper]

By the way, I never said WHM had better MP management than SCH. I don't know why everyone keeps saying I did.

It's called having an agenda. Your post doesn't fit with the narrative that WHM is weak, underpowered, and in need of some buffs, and therefore words are going to be twisted until it looks like you're being ridiculous.