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  1. #1
    Player
    Tupsi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,149
    Character
    Odsarzol Que
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    They did have special attributes in 1.23 but Yoshi took em away stating ARR's battle system has no need for 'complex' stats.
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    synaesthetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    196
    Character
    Aeriyn Ashley
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Tupsi View Post
    They did have special attributes in 1.23 but Yoshi took em away stating ARR's battle system has no need for 'complex' stats.
    Which makes the endgame gearing metagame very boring. I hope they change their mind on this. "Higher numbers" is dull as watching paint dry.

    I would rather pieces of gear have skill bonuses.

    Take the Crimson Vest from LotA. It's a very nice piece, quite nicely itemized, but nobody's going to use it over Sorcerer's Coat. It's just clearly "worse," and that clearly-worseness means power creep can, well, creep in and start making things inflated and ugly.

    I'd propose putting a skill bonus on various pieces of gear, specifically the LotA body pieces and the relic weapons--without adjusting any of their other attributes at all.

    For example:

    Crimson Vest
    Intelligence +25
    Vitality +25
    Accuracy +21
    Critical Hit Rate +30
    Fire III/Fester: Increases damage by 7%.

    Then you'd really have to consider, "wow, this might actually be better than Sorcerer's Coat!" And it might be, depending on playstyle. There'd be a lot of theorycrafting needed to figure out which one is better.

    Or, for healers, you could have an alternate version of Royal Vest:

    Royal Vest
    Mind +25
    Vitality +25
    Piety +15
    Spell Speed +30
    Cure II/Adloquium: Decreases MP cost by 10%.

    Things like this would make gearing much more interesting. Currently gearing is rather bland; it's basically a "higher numbers" game right now. All you have to do is get enough accuracy to not miss on Coil bosses, and then just stack your primary attribute. It's very dull.
    (3)
    Last edited by synaesthetic; 01-04-2014 at 07:01 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Magis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,253
    Character
    Magis Luagis
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Tupsi View Post
    They did have special attributes in 1.23 but Yoshi took em away stating ARR's battle system has no need for 'complex' stats.
    Ugh =\ that sucks. Speaking of complex combat, I wish XIV had an elemental wheel. Did 1.0 have one too (I'd assume so)? It's always weird how you kill a fire elemental with Fire.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    synaesthetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    196
    Character
    Aeriyn Ashley
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Magis View Post
    Ugh =\ that sucks. Speaking of complex combat, I wish XIV had an elemental wheel. Did 1.0 have one too (I'd assume so)? It's always weird how you kill a fire elemental with Fire.
    Yoshida did this for a reason and I support his reasoning. What elemental resistances/weaknesses mean is that certain jobs will get trivialized in certain encounters. Nobody would take a BLM to fight Ifrit because they'd be forced to spam Blizzard spells, doing drastically reduced damage. I went through that crap in vanilla WoW, where mages were required to specialize for Frost spells, greatly reducing their damage potential.
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    Tupsi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,149
    Character
    Odsarzol Que
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
    Yoshida did this for a reason and I support his reasoning. What elemental resistances/weaknesses mean is that certain jobs will get trivialized in certain encounters.
    So what you're saying is, no one prefers one class/class form (i.e melee/ranged) over another in ARR...? Because what he stated was basically trying to prevent something that would happen no matter what.

    (Protip: It still happened.)
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    MACEenyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    66
    Character
    Count Nogi
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
    Yoshida did this for a reason and I support his reasoning. What elemental resistances/weaknesses mean is that certain jobs will get trivialized in certain encounters. Nobody would take a BLM to fight Ifrit because they'd be forced to spam Blizzard spells, doing drastically reduced damage. I went through that crap in vanilla WoW, where mages were required to specialize for Frost spells, greatly reducing their damage potential.
    Or he could just make Blizzard strength comparable to Fire. The design of the BLM class is horrible.
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    Magis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,253
    Character
    Magis Luagis
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
    Yoshida did this for a reason and I support his reasoning. What elemental resistances/weaknesses mean is that certain jobs will get trivialized in certain encounters. Nobody would take a BLM to fight Ifrit because they'd be forced to spam Blizzard spells, doing drastically reduced damage. I went through that crap in vanilla WoW, where mages were required to specialize for Frost spells, greatly reducing their damage potential.
    I understand, it seems more to be a problem with the combat system in general. And of course throwing an elemental wheel in would cripple the game at this point. If classes had access to more elemental spells/abilities, it would help avoid the issue. It would also open to more interesting mechanics like mobs that take more magical/physical damage, element damage, etc.

    Also in Vanilla WoW the reason I recall ice was required was because fire generated more heat (heh pun) than ice, and burned more mana, not due to any elemental damage. Did WoW even have any? I only recall Chromaggus having one as a boss mechanic (alternating weaknesses).

    Quote Originally Posted by MACEenyo View Post
    Or he could just make Blizzard strength comparable to Fire. The design of the BLM class is horrible.
    Agreed, it's just Fire, Blizzard, and a Thunder once in a while (with varying tiers) =\. Not really what one has in mind with the classic FF BLM.
    (1)
    Last edited by Magis; 01-04-2014 at 07:18 AM.

  8. #8
    Player
    synaesthetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    196
    Character
    Aeriyn Ashley
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by MACEenyo View Post
    Or he could just make Blizzard strength comparable to Fire. The design of the BLM class is horrible.
    You're joking, right? BLM is one of the most well-designed jobs in the game. It doesn't rely entirely upon a single skill (Invigorate) to keep it from running out of resources in long fights like MNK, DRG and BRD do. BLM has a perfect set-up with the "burn phase" with Astral Fire and the "recovery phase" with Umbral Ice. If only the rest of the jobs in the game had the same very active method of resource regeneration. Tanks are even more screwed, left just waiting for TP to regenerate. That's not fun; that's boring and uninvolved and frustrating.
    (4)

  9. #9
    Player

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    266
    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
    You're joking, right? BLM is one of the most well-designed jobs in the game. It doesn't rely entirely upon a single skill (Invigorate) to keep it from running out of resources in long fights like MNK, DRG and BRD do. BLM has a perfect set-up with the "burn phase" with Astral Fire and the "recovery phase" with Umbral Ice. If only the rest of the jobs in the game had the same very active method of resource regeneration. Tanks are even more screwed, left just waiting for TP to regenerate. That's not fun; that's boring and uninvolved and frustrating.
    agree 10000%
    (2)

  10. #10
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,885
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
    You're joking, right? BLM is one of the most well-designed jobs in the game. It doesn't rely entirely upon a single skill (Invigorate) to keep it from running out of resources in long fights like MNK, DRG and BRD do. BLM has a perfect set-up with the "burn phase" with Astral Fire and the "recovery phase" with Umbral Ice. If only the rest of the jobs in the game had the same very active method of resource regeneration. Tanks are even more screwed, left just waiting for TP to regenerate. That's not fun; that's boring and uninvolved and frustrating.
    I somewhat have to disagree with TP regen being uninvolved in consideration of Monk conservation phases, etc, but... those could be more interesting too. I honestly wish BLM's invocation/evocation phasing was a bit more variable though. It's still a very simple and relatively rigid mechanic, with less actual choice-work than long-term dps as a Monk, though likely more than that of any other class (any combo class simply drops a primary combo or two, waiting to rebuff, and Bard just drops primary shots, which is fairly dull).
    (0)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 01-04-2014 at 09:06 AM.

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