So are Crafting + Gathering jobs now -just- "support" jobs?

[Evangela]

JAJAJAJAJAJAJA!!!!!

this is the good direction of FFXIV

eliminate boring/painful gameplay = getting more new players

[zoozoo]

Yeah I know what you mean, I remember them talking about Miners granting an increased drop rate for metal, ores, etc. or something. You have a point. Unfortunately they couldn't make it work and had to gimp storyline missions because they couldn't deliver on those promises. Working from where we stand now, it only makes sense for them to go back to more traditional ways instead of changing the only (fragile) balance of the game.

I can agree with that. But i sometimes think it's not because they couldn't make it work, but because they ran out of time to develop skills/abilities for all of the crafting classes.

But if they are reverting to traditional crafting ways, they need to scrap the exp system that's in place for crafters now, and go on a different, skill based level up system (like ffxi). The imbalance between the crafting grind and the DOM/DOW grind is huge. I think the original developers intended DOL/DOH classes to grind to 50 using a hybrid of battle and crafting.

[Wynn]

I guess I see end game and regular parties differently.

But I'm not arguing the main class thing. I am still a main class crafter. Crafters and harvesters still have their own story lines.

It sounds to me like they are going to make the main story more battle oriented, but I'm totally ok with that and I think it is necessary to make the main story fun and interesting.

It would be nice if they would also include a main crafter story and a main harvester story too. I doubt it would happen, but it would be nice.

[Nilheim]

I can agree with that. But i sometimes think it's not because they couldn't make it work, but because they ran out of time to develop skills/abilities for all of the crafting classes.

But if they are reverting to traditional crafting ways, they need to scrap the exp system that's in place for crafters now, and go on a different, skill based level up system (like ffxi). The imbalance between the crafting grind and the DOM/DOW grind is huge. I think the original developers intended DOL/DOH classes to grind to 50 using a hybrid of battle and crafting.

Indeed, crafting is extremly slow and boring. Not to mention how fatigue stops you when you finally find the motivation to go on a long streak, but that's another subject.
I was very excited about crafting when I started playing, but now I just wish it wasn't so painful. The cap is 50, so I don't even want to think about the number of synths we'll need to level when we're like 70. I too am in favor of a more rewarding (in terms of progression) system for Crafters should they become secondary as is now intended. I'm no Gatherer but I hear they have it just as bad, so of course that change should include them as well.

[Azurus]

I feel that besides just branching storyline missions for battle classes and crafters/gatherers, it is still possible to give veteran crafters an endgame. I think down the road we very well may see the projects spoke of long ago like ships and cakes and whatnot. This could be crafter endgame. Take this for example, There is a fight you wanna do against some boss on some island. Your LS gets the battlers together to do what they do, but hey they need a ship to get there. This is where your LS "endgame crafters" come in. They make the ship you need and any other things you may need in order to get to that boss and take it down. I'm sure there are endless possibilities on what you can include all the classes in to.

Gatherers can work the same way. For the crafters to make this ship the Battle classes must protect a gatherer going up a treacherous volcano so he can gather the rare wood/metal to make the ship, a boss can spawn when the gatherer strikes a piece of wood/ore and this just so happens to be the bosses weak point so striking the ore/wood effectively will help the battle classes take down the boss. I have tons of other ideas but im sick of typing haha.

[TheVedis]

They are supporting roles right now in truth

by "main" classes you talk about that which can efficiently complete content and encounters, and lets fadce it, your not bringing these to a NM fight


people can however use them as mains, but they arent going to be able to do all there is to offer contentwise cuz of it

[Azurus]

They are supporting roles right now in truth

by "main" classes you talk about that which can efficiently complete content and encounters, and lets fadce it, your not bringing these to a NM fight


people can however use them as mains, but they arent going to be able to do all there is to offer contentwise cuz of it

With the amount of ideas running through my head right now i find it hard to believe that SE can't find more meaningful ways to involve crafters and gatherers. I hope this is rectified with time, cause i feel they have the imagination to do it. They just need to start thinking outside the box and tailoring encounters that are multilayered that get everyone involved, instead of lame linear encounters that most of the time are beat by NPCs for you.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Is it really that hard to imagine giving DOH/DOL battle abilities? Just something that would make them valuable to a party. Make it so they can weaken some of the bosses while contributing some dps or healing/buffing. And let them equip some abilities from DOW classes that they've leveled.

Everyone for some reason seems to be stuck on parlay as the only option for crafters to be involved in the storyline/quests... When the much simpler solution is to make them pseudo battle classes.

Honestly, I'd rather they make support jobs with the DoW/DoM instead of the craft/gather classes. Leave the battle to the battle classes (with the incoming jobs) and the crafting/gathering to the crafters/gatherers. Why complicate things with allowing DoL/DoH to participate in battle and be as efficient in battle as the battle class?

[Azurus]

Honestly, I'd rather they make support jobs with the DoW/DoM instead of the craft/gather classes. Leave the battle to the battle classes (with the incoming jobs) and the crafting/gathering to the crafters/gatherers. Why complicate things with allowing DoL/DoH to participate in battle and be as efficient in battle as the battle class?

Most people are thinking to linear, Crafters and gatherers dont need to fight at all, all that needs to happen is the encounters need to be made multi layered so that while the battle classes are fighting the crafters and gatherers are working behind the scenes doing other things that assist in the battle. Like for instance a miner can come to this boss fight that is in a cave and striking certain mining spots will cause a cave in on top of the mob causeing damage or some other debuff. Or a fisherman can come and during the encounter the battle classes have to incapicitate a mob to get him to open his mouth, while they are doing that a fisherman can be fishing up poisonous fish, once the bosses mouth is open a menu command will appear that allows the fisherman to throw the fish in to the mobs mouth, thus debuffing him. Just little things like that would go a long way to making everyone feel involved.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Most people are thinking to linear, Crafters and gatherers dont need to fight at all, all that needs to happen is the encounters need to be made multi layered so that while the battle classes are fighting the crafters and gatherers are working behind the scenes doing other things that assist in the battle. Like for instance a miner can come to this boss fight that is in a cave and striking certain mining spots will cause a cave in on top of the mob causeing damage or some other debuff. Just little things like that would go a long way to making everyone feel involved.

I don't know, it would be hard to balance all that. Imagine your situation, the dmg/debuff it would do would have to be sufficient to justify the miner taking the place of a DoM/DoW. If they make the dmg/debuff too worthwhile, now you go the other way and you feel like you NEED to bring a miner with your group to succeed (taking into consideration that they make more challenging fights of course, not just the current spam fest fights).

Now if the miner (always in your exemple) does comparable dmg to a dow/dom class then it's unfair that on top of being competitive in battle, the miner can also gather stuff while the DoM/DoW cannot... see the crying coming?

Now I am not opposed to the DoL/DoH having their own endgame stuff to do like I said in an earlier post.. like having to go through a beast tribe filled dungeon and having to parley (since I don't think it's going anywhere) and get to a special crafting room to be able to craft certain end-game gears with mats that had to be aquired by DoL in a dungeon made for them. Now it's just an idea on top of my head but I'm sure game developers can come with a more fleshed out idead.