Game Getting DULL

[Beeraga]

The game design is great, but the fight mechanics and forced party structures are too formulaic. It's also getting irritating that most of the mechanics revolve around dodging AOE when people have to rely on laggy DF servers so they don't die.

Edit: Would also like to note the decline in logins in my FC as well. We had around 48 members, we have I've pared it down to about 38 now, the missing 10 had not logged in for 2 months. There is another 10-15 that rarely log in, like its not uncommon to not see them for more than a week or two between logins and these were friends from XI. Many of them spent time leveling crafting and looking forward to housing and were completely blindsided by the ridiculous pricing, and even more annoyed at the excuse for the pricing.

[Hyrist]

Given how you always disregard what anyone says anyway...

Who are you to state anything of what I do or do not disregard? I find what you said there to be highly rude, insulting, and factually incorrect. I'll often leave arguments hang when I think there is no room for a respectful acknowledgement, but it is not a dismissal of that person's opinion of views, so much as their conduct.

It also tempts me to do the very thing you accuse me of in spite. So I will again recommend, again, that you stow the attitude. Just because my observations do not agree with your self-assessment does not mean I view you as a lesser individual or purpose for sharing a different viewpoint. Merely that I question (not disregard) that viewpoint.

2. I skip no content in MMOs - What some won't admit is that in XIV, you can go through most of the content fairly fast if you're not going at a slow pace or have only 2 hours a day to play. Just because you have more than 2 hours a day to play doesn't always mean you have "no life" or "rush", it simply means you have time to enjoy the content and after a couple of months since launch, realistically 3 years (even yoshi stated this in his last letter just a few days ago) you've done most if not all of the content, and leveling doesn't count as content.

The boded is factually incorrect. Leveling is by definition, content. That you do not enjoy the progress of your character from baseline to full ability set does not disqualify it as intended mechanics to participate in, thus, content. Not in your first statement you accuse me of 'disregarding statements' yet you now offhandedly disregard content, because it disagrees with your gaming sensibilities. Let us not forget both the story-lines and achievements tied to leveling classes that you can sample, even if you disregard the raw gaining of EXP. I can go as far to acknowledge that you do not enjoy the content, and therefore do not wish to include it in your consideration of things to look forward to doing. But you would also need to acknowledge that some view leveling as content and actually wish it was more drawn out. (An opinion I do not share, but it exists none the less.)

Beyond that, I agree that leveling is an easy pacing and that, if you walk into the game and play at a casual pacing consistently you should be at level 50 on at least one class by now. Consistency being the key word here. I do not find this to be in error, or a fault of the design. In fact the ease of leveling will hopeful encourage people to level more than one class and be flexible in playing and aiding others. Often times, when exploring unfamiliar mechanics, you may find something that brings new enjoyment to the game.

3. MMO difficulty =/= Offline game difficulty and quite frankly, that's reaching - For one thing tiered difficulty in MMOs generally offer new routes, different bosses and different reward. Offline single player/Co-Op game difficulty selection tend to only increase monster stats, count, AI and sometimes loot. They're not comparable.

When the initial interviews regarding a Realm Reborn were made, Yoshida made it clear that first and foremost, A Realm Reborn is a Final Fantasy game. Final Fantasy has its roots squarely in the Single Player aspects, and in the last half decade alone many of the re-releases of these single player games have come with scaling difficulty settings.

However, ignoring that, nearly every single mechanic created in an MMO environment is based off of or inspired by previous game mechanics of other Genres. By no means is it a reach to ask an individual if they enjoy such settings in single player games and then ask them to make that comparison to an MMO environment. - A question you pointedly did not answer.

You feel the people who are unsatisfied aren't the target audience because they'll be the ones to actually speak up about the game in an unbiased manner. Think about it, the only time an MMO is specifically trying to keep people out of it (your logic presented) is when it's MMOs that are IP/Region locked - Otherwise MMOs are open to everyone and developers have to develop to try to keep either a happy medium or a large portion of their players happy - P2P based games wants everyone's money.

You're only presenting half the logic here. While, ideal, they would like everyone's money, they do realize they need to see the forest beyond just the trees. Creating content exclusively for one minor fraction of the player base may and can likely have a consequence that will alienate their larger, primary base.

Also, I will contest that anyone argues without bias. In fact, the outspoken, dejected players will most often speak with the most bias. A player on the higher end of the skill scale is going say they are bored, if the mechanics and difficulty is tuned beneath them. Likewise, those who are beneath the skill curve are going to complain about the 'cheapness' of the difficulty. Example: the player-base reactions to Ifrit vs Titan.

The target audience of this game is casual gamers, that much is true - However, if you stop and think..don't you realize that unless you are extremely casual in having only a few hours a week to play, there's absolutely no way to not be done with at least vanilla content unless you simply chose not to do the content..? It takes almost no time to get your first class to 50 which immediately opens up end-game, the rest is simply gear farming.

Let's tone down the hyperbole. It takes about a month of consistent, if casual play to reach level cap (~10 hours a week logged on, non-dedicated leveling.) At that point, endgame opens up and while you state 'gear farming' is the ultimate goal, the is much to play through. Level cap does not equate story-line completion, which is a gateway to a lot of content that won't be considered 'on farm' until properly conquered and understood, which may not be achieved in the first victory let alone the first attempt.

Beyond that we have those who have ulterior goals to completing content, such as the story locked behind such things as Coil, as Crystal Tower, as the Hildebrand Quests, and the Beast quests. These things are not so easily achieved due to stall-tactics in the game's mechanics, that keep from progressing too quickly.

This is also completely disregarding user-generated content, which, for especially one avenue of the game base, can prove to be quite time consuming and engaging.

And beyond all of this, comes the very subject that was brought up just recently: Community building. Those who stop to take the time to assist others in the community are going to find themselves with much more to do, even if it is repeated content. The element of another individual who may or may not be at the same level of understanding as you can prove to be very engaging. It is in this, I find the most joy within the game mechanics itself. A run becomes entirely different when the routine is broken by someone who's not at the full grasp of understanding, or has some other limiting situation such as blow optimal gear. This forces you to improvise, and adds new level of excitement to what would otherwise be routine.

This all illustrates the point that I've been trying to drive home here to the forums: Don't let the source of your entertainment and purpose come solely from the raw mechanics of the game. In my opinion, it is not what makes an mmo interesting. It is the interpersonal play, the creation and development of a sense of community. The personal progress, above simply the digital progress. And the mechanics of the game very much encourage this by making all levels of the game accessible, and making the gear grind both plain in view, and also restricted in such that those who are grinding for gear find themselves with a bit of free time to reengage with the larger community.

To which I say, if you're bored, find people to talk with. Socialize. Find where those behind you are at and see what you can do to help. You'd be surprised just how varied the people can be.

------

Finally on the subject of being off the target audience. This does not mean your feedback is invalid. It means that the tone of the feedback needs to acknowledge the position in which you are truly in, objectively. The reality is, the full of what you want may not happen and when the argument comes to siding with someone who is rudely outspoken who is in a minority, verses risking alienating the majority, the business sense in this matter is clear - they're going to side with the majority.

This means suggestions need to be made out of respect and in be prepared for the likely possibility of compromise.

Now, I have offered what makes this game exciting to me, in spite of mechanics that some here deem routine and simple. I am open to the idea of additions and adjustments to broaden the scope for more players to feel welcome, so long as it is done in respect of those whom much of this game is designed around.

But I will maintain my initial criticism of much of the community here - it seems people are more inclined to insult each other than to talk, and that's disheartening. I hope that the trend subsides as the community continues to settle and players begin to acknowledge that they are staying for the long haul, or moving on to something else. I've already made that decision - I'm happy enough with the game to stick with it.

Looking forward to seeing more of those who agree, and hope that those that disagree find what they're looking for, here, or elsewhere.

[Eldryan]

I have regretfully seen a reversal in such attitudes from the 'old school' instead of welcoming, they are instead very indignant...

Your assumption about how I receive people in the game is incorrect. I spend a lot of time helping new players through their content. I'm always welcoming and offer my assistance to random people in need, and I am almost never rude to any fellow gamer unless they are extremely rude towards me or my companions. The part that frustrates me, is that I've seen so many good people quit this game because of the elitist attitude that is dominating the landscape of the current community. If you say I am indignant towards the social climate in today's gaming community, perhaps I am, but I am this way not because I no longer 'feel special' for being part of a niche, I am indignant because the cooperative, inclusive atmosphere has been replaced with a colder, competitive attitude towards fellow gamer.

[Hyrist]

22 people on my list of peeps haven't been on for over 40 days. Not even 2.1 brought them back. They stopped. Poof. No mas. FC's and statics are constantly having to fill slots because of these incidents.

Well 22 is not a lot! It's over half the list of people i talk ... see: talked, to.

To the folks pointing at the influx of fresh meat, yes there are new players. Always will be. Give them 3 or 4 months and many will already be gone. This thread has the perspectives of people who've already been here that long, or longer.

Mn. I don't agree with your assessment. 22 people may seem like a lot, but to the game itself it's a drop in the bucket. We've more coming and going by the hour in those numbers than you noticed in that span of time.


Now, do I believe the population is in decline? Yes. I believe the initial swell of people who leaped to a new thing hoping to find a home is finally deciding the game is not for them and are moving on. Is this unhealthy for the game? No. It's the natural flow for any MMO. We just not got over the point where our servers were buckling under the strain of the number of people we had, and SE predicted far few numbers than we are currently maintaining. I feel we will continue to decline for perhaps one more patch cycle before our numbers stabilize again and the signs of a slow climb or slow decent will be made clear.

Someone just joining the game now? Is going to have a lot to do. And when the backlash from the Housing fiasco settles, we'll see a good number of players return with new content down the line.

Your assumption about how I receive people in the game is incorrect. I spend a lot of time helping new players through their content. I'm always welcoming and offer my assistance to random people in need, and I am almost never rude to any fellow gamer unless they are extremely rude towards me or my companions. The part that frustrates me, is that I've seen so many good people quit this game because of the elitist attitude that is dominating the landscape of the current community. If you say I am indignant towards the social climate in today's gaming community, perhaps I am, but I am this way not because I no longer 'feel special' for being part of a niche, I am indignant because the cooperative, inclusive atmosphere has been replaced with a colder, competitive attitude towards fellow gamer.

I can't say that I haven't noticed that as well, and it is disheartening, as I've stated before. And knowing now what you shared with me makes me feel the sting of you leaving the game, as we would need more people standing as pillars of the community.

If I may go so far as to presume once more - would you say it is hardship, in that the mechanics being as unforgiving as they were in games like Ultima Online, Everquest, and FFXI that caused the communities to bind together? If so, I came up with a much different assessment, watching those communities through the years becoming increasingly narrow-minded in scope, creating a very homogenized span of opinions as players began to bleed out of groups.

Regardless, should you reconsider, I do know of a few welcoming communities on different servers I would recommend joining, if you are interested, which may serve to better your experience in the game.

[Eldryan]

I do not believe it was the difficulty of the content itself, but rather the need to build a stable network of players in order to achieve anything in those games that made the community bonded. I know the debate about the Duty Finder content is old, so I won't get into it, but what we have to give up for the convenience of being able to do anything at anytime, is the strong network of players that used to develop through necessity, and the decency and cooperation that is required to strengthen that network. The current system attracts more players, but many of which do not share the same desire to reach out to their fellow gamers because they can replace a party member and have a new one queued up within minutes. Basically, we've begun to view each other as disposable units so there is no need for civility and courtesy for the most part.

Even in FFXIV 1.0, there was a strong community and bond that formed because there was no Duty Finder. Sorry for short posts, forum limitation.

[Despite]

I do not believe it was the difficulty of the content itself, but rather the need to build a stable network of players in order to achieve anything in those games that made the community bonded. I know the debate about the Duty Finder content is old, so I won't get into it, but what we have to give up for the convenience of being able to do anything at anytime, is the strong network of players that used to develop through necessity, and the decency and cooperation that is required to strengthen that network. The current system attracts more players, but many of which do not share the same desire to reach out to their fellow gamers because they can replace a party member and have a new one queued up within minutes. Basically, we've begun to view each other as disposable units so there is no need for civility and courtesy for the most part.

Agreed. The LFG/LFD tools have had quite a negative impact on the MMO genre as a whole.

[Hyrist]

I do not believe it was the difficulty of the content itself, but rather the need to build a stable network of players in order to achieve anything in those games that made the community bonded...

There has to be a way we, as a community, can work to increase the desire for such things in spite of the duty finder. I don't agree that making it an absolute necessity is a healthy thing for a community, even if it had a healthy byproduct. Keep in mind there were several communities formed that were quite exploitative of its members for the benefit of the few, and players, due to such necessity, felt the need to sit around for any chance of progress. Id say for every healthy community it encouraged, it also enabled an unhealthy one.


But it would be nice if we had more tools to community build and interact with each other one. A way to perhaps make a custom Leve that could be shared with Company mates, as one example. More non-progression based content that players can enjoy together casually for entertainment would also help players meet and get to know one another would also be very helpful (I'm anxiously awaiting Golden Saucer for this as well).

But I still feel we've come to rely too much on the mechanics of the game to do the work for us, no matter what on the spectrum of opinions we lie. Back in past, the need for a group to get any content or progression done meant we did not have to work as hard to build communities. And on the same token, we're also expecting the game mechanics to be our only source of entertainment within the game itself. I can't help but feel something of personal ownership and responsibility for our troubles has been lost over the years.


(As an added tip, you can edit your post to include more than 1000 characters within it. I draft my posts outside of the normal post box and just edit it in after.)

[Amocoru]

you haven't beaten turn 5 O.o


Edit:
Or XM Titan/Ifrit

sooo...

Sooo, because they're not having fun with the content you're having fun with means they're wrong? No. It's extremely dull right now. Making new versions of the same fight just isn't acceptable, it's lazy. New content should be created not revamping old content and crossing your fingers people won't get bored.

[Ksenia]

I love the mean streak in the code too.

I haven't completed the Main duty finder farming line, .aka storyline. So for three days in a row I get a treasure map, Decypher, Western La Noscea, Isle of Umbra.
Right click, discard, Log out.

It's robotic.

- Do this quest. NOW.
- Kill that mob. NOW.
- Can I have a bellhop uniform and a tin cup too?

[Daenerys_Sedai]

Take the $13 you're paying each month and go spend it on something you find less dull? SE is taking your money. If you're not happy with the direction the game is going, why keep giving it to them?