Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

[Shadex]

I'd like to know exactly what you did, especially pre abyssea to get to level cap. You pretty much had to grind. I'm very interested, please don't disappoint.

We did lots of stuff. We really enjoyed playing a large part in the Campaign and would move around the map helping to flip them to our nation to open stores. We would be constantly helping other members of the LS with story missions, get items, hunting NMs, we did Assaults. Often we would just wander zones hunting rather than simply sit in one spot and have some poor sod <<fishing>> for us. When one introduces variety the feeling of grind lessens greatly. Often we would get a level ding and be surprised by it because we weren't even watching for it. It was nice. Once Square introduced the Abbysea WoW Train most of us left as for far too many it became all about that because it was easy so we moved on.

[Velhart]

@Velhart -> While I agree that FFXIV has never had as much sense of adventure as XI even in the old 1.0-1.23, if you went out of your way to explore in the old FFXIV there was tuns of adventure.

I would go out and discover all kinds of awsome things most people didn't even think about because they were too busy grinding out there leaves.
Well in 1.0 I didn't bother grinding out leaves to level I would make grind partys and find awesome camps and played it very much the same way as you would play FFXI, jumping from camp to camp I leveled all my jobs to 50 that way except for my first class GLD I leveled that doing Leaves and Behest... man was that a chore, never again.. NEVER AGAIN! lol

Most people didn't know all the ins and outs of the old game, they saw leaves as a major grind but didn't stop to think about alternatives.

Another reasons for exploring in the old game, farming camps, gathering spots, fishing spots all of which had more purpose in the old game.

I went to the aetherytes and went through almost every small part of 1.xx and....no. Grinding parties are pretty awful also. I didn't like it in 2003 when FFXI came out here. I didn't like grinding when I quit in 2010. I didn't like to grind both EXP and SP in FFXIV. For crying out loud you had to level your class like you did with weapon skills from FFXI. Who's bright idea was that? FFXI looking at it retrospectively I can give a pass only because of it being in the early days of MMO's and it's technical limitations. It was no excuse for 1.xx. Sure you can make the argument that grind is in every MMO, but 1.xx put no effort at all to cleverly disguise it with fun content. ARR however uses things such as quests, FATE's, and dungeons to help disguise this. Making sure you simply are not sitting in one corner and killing the same mob all day. I can't understand by today's standards why you find that fun at all. It is one of the biggest pace breakers you can put into MMO's today.

Quests give good bits of lore, FATE's offer small to large scale engaging fights that are fun (sure it needs tweaks, but the system itself is solid), dungeons offer mechanics and boss fights that keep you on your toes, hunting log to influence you to explore certain areas to find mobs. All this is happening while you are gaining EXP. Let me ask, how often did you grind where you found other attractions around your room for entertainment? I know to endure the long grinds I had my TV on. Hell, depending on the job, I sit there and cast whats necessary while playing another game. Please do not convince me that pure grind is the way to go, you are very much the minority in that one. Is the system perfect in ARR? No, I have fair share of complaints myself, but the overall system is solid and the variety of options to not only entertain you, but be productive at the same time. It actually feels like an experience and not a chore.

Also, please don't credit Final Fantasy too much on going out of their way or being original. Even Final Fantasy 1 was just Dragon Quest with it's own take on it. Even admitted they drew inspiration straight from DQ to make the game. What does set Final Fantasy apart is how it approaches familiar systems. Things like the job system, or the ATB gauge system. These were features added to a formula done to death by the JRPG industry. Final Fantasy has always been known for it's presentation, story telling, and interesting takes on an existing system for better or worse. FFXI itself drew inspiration straight from Everquest. If you played both, you could easily point out similarities between the two. 1.xx's biggest fault was not catering to a global standard and tried to hard to be it's own thing, ending up shooting themselves in the foot. ARR takes what works, puts their own take on it with the Armory System and presentation that rivals WoW itself.

You can hate on it all you want, and you are completely entitled to your opinion, but ARR is successful, it isn't going anywhere, and you are welcome to go back to FFXI and grind to your heart's content if that is what you truly desire. ARR is it's own thing, it clearly is liked by the majority of players, and I am extremely doubtful newcomers today would cater to an MMO lifestyle where you have to dedicate hours and hours of your time to get the slightest thing done.

But I am just hitting a brick wall with a wiffle bat in this thread, boredom will do that.

[odintius]

Massive Multiplayer Online game were designed at the beginning to have massive hurls to overcome to be able to progress to the higher tiers were you have a better sense of accomplishments for achieving it. Know and day's most mmo are spoon feed for a cheap thrill for an instant gratification crowd to then move on to the next spoon feed mmo that comes out. The excuse of not having enough time to play is bs it falls on your time management skill if your with people with somewhat the same time schedule plan out on what night to complete a particular content.

I'll use CoP as an example before the nerf to it I had a static group that I found by /shout method they had the same time schedule as me one person semi different but was workable. We planned out then schedule dates to do each piece of that content ie farm certain items we needed and sometimes that was it for that night and continue until the next day to fight the boss or complete the quest as a group and sometimes had to level a different job to benefit the party for certain bosses we did that together sometimes also. I then put down the controller/keyboard because it's a game eventually me and my group complete CoP yea took awhile longer than most people but I had a great sense of accomplishment do to it felt earned not handed to but that my opinion im sure other's have simular experiences.

[Canddi]

I never got bored of XP parties in FFXI. Sure some were god-awful but that was all part of the charm. I've met many good friends on FFXI in simple pick up parties that lasted hours, something that will never happen in FFXIV. I played FFXI for 8 years and never got tired of it. Sure it had it's fair share of problems but no other MMO i've played has ever come close to the camaraderie in that game. Sadly SE is just cashing in on what the majority of people want in their MMO's now, instant gratification with minimal work required. The only thing that's giving me any sense of real accomplishment in ARR was when I finally beat Titan HM, which is kinda sad.

[Loony_BoB]

For crying out loud you had to level your class like you did with weapon skills from FFXI. Who's bright idea was that?

Wait, what? Do you mean 1.1 or something, rather than 1.23? Because I can't even remember when I had to level in such a way - it was all about the hit something, let some other L50 person kill it, reap rewards strategy for me up to L30, then it was a quick stint up to L50. It was insanely easy to level to 50 in 1.x, far faster than it is in ARR. By a really, really long way. You could hit L50 in a day or two if you felt like it.

EDIT: Not taking either side, just saw that and raised an eyebrow.

[Muzy]

Wait, what? Do you mean 1.1 or something, rather than 1.23? Because I can't even remember when I had to level in such a way - it was all about the hit something, let some other L50 person kill it, reap rewards strategy for me up to L30, then it was a quick stint up to L50. It was insanely easy to level to 50 in 1.x, far faster than it is in ARR. By a really, really long way. You could hit L50 in a day or two if you felt like it.

EDIT: Not taking either side, just saw that and raised an eyebrow.

1.0 had two totally separate exp sets for players, they had the over all character level and then the class level, it was a... Rather ludicrous system to be honest, and a royal pain in the ass for levelling.

[Velhart]

Wait, what? Do you mean 1.1 or something, rather than 1.23? Because I can't even remember when I had to level in such a way - it was all about the hit something, let some other L50 person kill it, reap rewards strategy for me up to L30, then it was a quick stint up to L50. It was insanely easy to level to 50 in 1.x, far faster than it is in ARR. By a really, really long way. You could hit L50 in a day or two if you felt like it.

EDIT: Not taking either side, just saw that and raised an eyebrow.

Before the new team came in and changed things: How the game originally worked was you had an overall physical level that leveled through EXP, and you had class levels which leveled through SP. Instead of getting set EXP/SP after battle. You would get it through RNG, in which you had to keep hitting a mob and "luckily" gain something from it. It was possible for one party member to get 400EXP/100SP from one mob and you zero. It was beyond tedious and frustrating as a system. When the new team came in, they changed it so mobs dropped a set EXP/SP per fight. Eventually physical levels were dropped all together and levels were done through the class levels and changed it from SP to EXP, which overall was a much better system.

[Muzy]

Before the new team came in and changed things: How the game originally worked was you had an overall physical level that leveled through EXP, and you had class levels which leveled through SP. Instead of getting set EXP/SP after battle. You would get it through RNG, in which you had to keep hitting a mob and "luckily" gain something from it. It was possible for one party member to get 400EXP/100SP from one mob and you zero. It was beyond tedious and frustrating as a system. When the new team came in, they changed it so mobs dropped a set EXP/SP per fight. Eventually physical levels were dropped all together and levels were done through the class levels and changed it from SP to EXP, which overall was a much better system.

I remember my LS grouping up and killing like 30 things, and only half of us got any exp/sp >.< Seriously, stupidest system EVER.

[Loony_BoB]

Before the new team came in and changed things: How the game originally worked was you had an overall physical level that leveled through EXP, and you had class levels which leveled through SP. Instead of getting set EXP/SP after battle. You would get it through RNG, in which you had to keep hitting a mob and "luckily" gain something from it. It was possible for one party member to get 400EXP/100SP from one mob and you zero. It was beyond tedious and frustrating as a system. When the new team came in, they changed it so mobs dropped a set EXP/SP per fight. Eventually physical levels were dropped all together and levels were done through the class levels and changed it from SP to EXP, which overall was a much better system.

Ah. I think when people talk about the old game, they are generally referring to 1.23, not 1.0 launch... best to assume as such, I'd say.

[Dale]

I sympathize with the OP. I don't like these new trends in MMO design either. And the fault can be laid at the feet of the social media crowd. They came into dominance with the advent of face book and other such online activities. And they have successfully taken over this genre and twisted it to their liking.

In short: MMORPGs are not RPG games. They are just fantasy-themed face books with mini-games attached to it that players have the option to participate in with others if they desire. That is where this whole concept of a theme-park MMORPG comes from. It's intended to just provide a social atmosphere with rides scattered about the place players can jump on if they want. But gone are the days of having an actual world where players from groups to explore.

I don't like it either. But like it or not, that's what they have turned into. They are not RPG/adventure games any longer. They are theme parks.