Balmung is Homeless on Christmas' Eve. Is this really what you wanted, Yoshida-san?

[Peptaru]

Some guy said MOST mmorpgs, so I'll counter with ONE example. . .

One example still means MOST is valid. Your entire point was... idk... meaningless?

[Abriael]

One example still means MOST is valid. Your entire point was... idk... meaningless?

Exactly. And Lineage is an extremely outdated anyway. It's not nearly within market standards.

The point, which you seemed to miss, is that this wasn't something that the devs wanted obtainable within a day. Yoshida took a page from the old school designs and korean MMOs

Taking a page from bad design is not a good idea.

because otherwise every FC from here to Atomos would have a house and add yet another item to the eternal whine list of "I have nothing to do".

False, because the concept of well designed housing is to let people buy the basic house and then making them work hard for rare furniture or to expand. You don't immediately run out of things to do once you buy a small house. Not even close.

Keep the strawman arguments coming

[Duelle]

And Lineage is an extremely outdated anyway. It's not nearly within market standards.

You said:

I can't remember a single MMORPG in which an overwhelming percentages of guilds couldn't afford entry level housing upon implementation, and this is made even worse here by the fact that there's no other kind of housing for now.

I mentioned one example of such. Don't backpedal or attempt to wave off my comment, as the example I presented was well within the context of your statement.

Modern games don't have much to present as a frame of reference. WoW never had guild housing (hell, they're just getting personal housing almost 10 years since the game launched!). Rift just got personal housing. Wildstar will have personal housing with guild forts (details of which have not been released as far as acquisition goes). SWTOR doesn't have real personal housing, as your ship is basically a hub to store your companion NPCs and little else.

FC Housing was touted as one the upcoming saving graces. It was going to be for all to enjoy, and brought energy back into the game.

My expectations changed when the plug changed from "housing" to "FC housing". As I've said, I kind of know how far that can be taken as far as obtainability goes.

Even people without houses, still say they have nothing to do

That was me taking potshots at those who whined about the game having no longevity during beta and on the 1.0 forums. As I've mentioned, I look at it as the devs intending it to take a while to obtain, which on a guild level makes sense. You could subscribe to the other conspiracy theory (the prices are a stalling tactic), but I don't see what good that would do.

That aside, would it have been better to implement everything (player and FC housing) at once? Definitely, as the market for furniture would move steadily seeing that demand would exist for both FC housing and player housing. That ship has already sailed, sadly.

Yes, housing is nice and I look forward to someday owning a small plot in Ishgard amidst the falling snow and the ocassional dragon attack, but knowing that FC housing has been implemented with the insane prices and the fact player housing is not in the game yet simply means we have to wait and see. I promise you that I'll be the one distributing torches and pitchforks if personal housing is prices anything like FC housing.

[Abriael]

You said:
I mentioned one example of such. Don't backpedal or attempt to wave off my comment, as the example I presented was well within the context of your statement.

"I can't remember" and "Don't exist" are two extremely different statements. Your comment has been waved off because it doesn't really counter my statement in any way, and presenting bad, outdated design as an example doesn't really change the fact that the current FC housing prices are detrimental under every possible level, especially when followed by strawman arguments or simply false statements like "add yet another item to the eternal whine list of "I have nothing to do"."

[Duelle]

"I can't remember" and "Don't exist" are two extremely different statements.

Indeed they are, and this distinction has nothing to do with my post. You said you don't remember a game that had guild housing unbtainable on day 1. I provided an example of such. That's it.

As far as your last sentence, you're either willingly blind or weren't paying attention to the whine posts about how people ran out of stuff to do in-game that were made prior to 2.1.

1 - pricing is different on different worlds, even though ALL worlds have players that started fresh at 2.0, and ALL worlds have the same gil rewards from quests etc.

With all due respect, this is a "you reap what you sow" outcome. There were posts during beta that asked for a full gil wipe rather than redenomination, as some felt there were still going to be issues with gil quantities carried over once ARR launched (not counting steps taken by the developers to remove gil from the economy, which admitedly I did not see coming). People were against it, forgetting legacy players already had an advantage via leveled classes and items in their inventories.

I remember going into one such thread and telling people the story of the Grim Collector bug as well as explain why a wipe makes sense to balance things out. The replies I got included "I don't care about what happened in the past", despite the famous saying. All because they wanted to keep their stored millions of gil. And I don't doubt that had a part to play in how housing prices are set.

2 - pricing on the 2 server groups that include Balmung and Durandal are PROHIBITIVE and borderline PUNITIVE

I was on Balmung prior to 2.0, so I do remember how much gil was floating around. I also remember a whole bunch of tricks and exploits for making gil. Some became public knowledge (and were nerfed when they did) before The Calamity, and the lingering questions few dared to ask were how long those tricks had been around and how much gil RMT might have stockpiled because of them.

With this in mind, is it surprising that the groups with the most expensive plots include high population legacy servers? Not one bit.

To answer you claim on fairness, I don't call them fair, but do see why the prices were set they way they were.

[Abriael]

Indeed they are, and this distinction has nothing to do with my post. You said you don't remember a game that had guild housing unbtainable on day 1. I provided an example of such. That's it.

Which still doesn't make it any relevant market standard, which is the opposite.

As far as your last sentence, you're either willingly blind or weren't paying attention to the whine posts about how people ran out of stuff to do in-game that were made prior to 2.1.

There's no blindness, only the knowledge that getting a small house does not make you run out of housing content when you still have to work very hard to expand and get all the rare furniture. Again. Yours is a fallacious argument.

With all due respect, this is a "you reap what you sow" outcome. There were posts during beta that asked for a full gil wipe rather than redenomination, as some felt there were still going to be issues with gil quantities carried over once ARR launched (not counting steps taken by the developers to remove gil from the economy, which admitedly I did not see coming). People were against it, forgetting legacy players already had an advantage via leveled classes and items in their inventories.

I remember going into one such thread and telling people the story of the Grim Collector bug as well as explain why a wipe makes sense to balance things out. The replies I got included "I don't care about what happened in the past", despite the famous saying. All because they wanted to keep their stored millions of gil. And I don't doubt that had a part to play in how housing prices are set.
I was on Balmung prior to 2.0, so I do remember how much gil was floating around. I also remember a whole bunch of tricks and exploits for making gil. Some became public knowledge (and were nerfed when they did) before The Calamity, and the lingering questions few dared to ask were how long those tricks had been around and how much gil RMT might have stockpiled because of them.

With this in mind, is it surprising that the groups with the most expensive plots include high population legacy servers? Not one bit.

To answer you claim on fairness, I don't call them fair, but do see why the prices were set they way they were.

With all due respect, this is nonsensical bull.

Mechanics shouldn't punish everyone on a server due to a few, and gil is not nearly well distributed on balmung or anywhere else. For everyone that has several millions there are several that have under 500k.

People's progression should not be erased just to remove the riches of a few, exactly like prices should not be jacked up just to drain those of a few. If you think even just the majority on Balmung has an overabundance of gil, I'm sorry to burst a bubble, but you're delusive.