Suggestion of Paladin "utility and fun" improvement

[Enfarious]

I decided to check out the numbers myself. Using Valks damage calculator, assume all other variables are constant (weapon damage, potency, etc). I will only change the Strength attribute.

I know this isn't a lot of data or trials, but for the most part it seems that RoH's STR reduction is a close damage reduction to Storm Path's 10%. That's probably why it seems negligible.

A fair point, if what your fighting uses only physical str based attacks. That is rarely the case. In most instances, where incoming damage tends to spike, it is from a magic source, effectively negating the eHP from Bulwark and RoH and it is never crit, negating returns from Awareness.

[glen7187]

A fair point, if what your fighting uses only physical str based attacks. That is rarely the case. In most instances, where incoming damage tends to spike, it is from a magic source, effectively negating the eHP from Bulwark and RoH and it is never crit, negating returns from Awareness.

True, which is why Gamemako's thread stated that WARs would be good for fights where you can reliably anticipate burst damage. But for the most part the tanks in general are pretty even since that is more a of situational argument (since paladins are a bit better in some situations also).

[PiedPiper]

A fair point, if what your fighting uses only physical str based attacks. That is rarely the case. In most instances, where incoming damage tends to spike, it is from a magic source, effectively negating the eHP from Bulwark and RoH and it is never crit, negating returns from Awareness.

Umm... other than ultima... what boss is hitting you with magic that matters?

In 4 man, all of the magic attacks neither class should get hit (walk through the cast).

Titan: Physical.
Garuda HM during sisters (red line): Physical. Slipstream is also physical (can be blocked).
Ifrit HM: Physical.
Moogle: Two tankable adds are both physical. Mog King's damage all/mostly physical.

Turn 1: Physical. Also, pld has like, all of the advantages here (high sustained dps on tank really hurts warrior due to their 5% lower healing efficiency, and their paltry self heals pale in comparison to the amount of damage going out.

Turn 2: Magical, but no spike damage, and kinda irrelevant since the fight requires 2 tanks for a normal clear. In a solo tank run.. it really doesn't much matter which tank is there since the final boss will do little/no direct damage to the tank.

Turn 3: Biggest threat to you is team mates sending you the wrong way for lulz. IMO, HQ > any war skill :PPPPPP

Turn 4: All physical again.

Turn 5: Annnnd.... physical.

Garuda EX: Physical

Titan EX: Physical

Ifrit EX: ....wait for it. Wait.... Physical.



More over, we have no real way of being sure that Ultima's attacks are actually based on her INT and not her STR. Unless you have pretty conclusive testing data to show me, I'd be pretty easily convinced it was based off Ultima's Attack potency, which is probably tied to her STR (since that is, after all, a big part of how virus works as well).

[Enfarious]

...

If your maintaining Path then the 10% damage reduction more than makes up for this, why is no one acknowledging this still?
To the point of literally everything else, Path debuff, WAR better for single targets. Ok so every onze of incoming damage is physical (not true, but not worth arguing), w/ Path up full time (no reason for it not to be, aside from jumps) WARs total mitigation and eHP is better, and makes the supposedly mathed out healing deficiency simply wrong.

For the sake of argument, PLD survivability is better against groups since rampart is a CD and IB requires wrath, but WAR damage far outweighs PLDs on that same group, so there is a fairly even trade off in survivability vs. killspeed.

Working with math we've all seen:
Assuming both have 6000 HP before stances
Warrior: 6000 * 1.25 = 7500
Paladin: 6000 + 20% dmg reduction = HP/(1 – 0.2) -> HP = 6000/0.8 = 7500
So without heals the effective health is the same, but things change once healing is taken into account. Tanks take 5k dmg over time and need to healed.
Paladin: 5000 * 0.8 = 4000 dmg to be healed
Warrior: 5000 * 0.9 (this is the missing factor) = 4500 dmg to be healed

White Mage Cure II = 1k
Paladin gets 1k * 4 = 4k to recap.
Warrior gets 1.2k * 4 = 4.8k to overheal 300.

The impact of RoH isn't a straight damage reduction, and the actual effect of a 10% str reduction to a mob would mean having to make a mob by mob study. The same is true for Foresight since the effect of increased defense would vary by player and mob.