Nerf SMN

[Nenin]

...OP Sleep post...

The benefit that Miasma has over Sleep is it's idiot-proof. Once it lands it WILL last the full duration unless the healer is smart + lucky enough to cleanse it. Any moron can smack a sleeping/frozen target and nullify the CC. Of course there are strategies to to avoid or maximize any CC/debuff in a premade but the average person solo queues.

Any class that can be played effectively without a great deal of effort is a magnet for QQ. Look at what happened to Bards. Bad BLMs are a joke and drop like rocks. Bad SMN still wreak havoc on PUGs. It's analogous to WoW back when the only classes with healing debuffs were warrior and rogue. Sure you could get gladiator with an obscure team composition but it was exponentially harder having to work around your lack of MS/Wound Poison.

[Alhanelem]

Even still, SMN has too many tools available, and brings far too much utility compared to other classes.

I don't see this at all. In fact, SCH has all the same utility you allege plus instant heals and a cure bot fairy, so it should be treated as more OP than SMN is.

If anyone that has been complaining in this thread would like to make a video that proves summoner is overpowered, and there was nothing their team could have done to counter him, I would really give it a chance to see their argument. But I sincerely doubt such a video will ever come (because there are ways to counter him).

This. At least, I've yet to find some magic combo that will win every or nearly every game.

[Bushido]

I don't see this at all. In fact, SCH has all the same utility you allege plus instant heals and a cure bot fairy, so it should be treated as more OP than SMN is.

This. At least, I've yet to find some magic combo that will win every or nearly every game.

ARCANIST Lv 50

[xxalucard]

The benefit that Miasma has over Sleep is it's idiot-proof. Once it lands it WILL last the full duration unless the healer is smart + lucky enough to cleanse it. Any moron can smack a sleeping/frozen target and nullify the CC. Of course there are strategies to to avoid or maximize any CC/debuff in a premade but the average person solo queues.

I don't feel that "players might be bad and ruin the CC" is a fair argument against sleep. In fact, "players can be good" is the argument I am making FOR sleep, because when used intelligently and with coordination, it can be much more OP than miasma.

I'm pretty sure PvP is intended to be coordinated (hence the annoying 2 minute wait every match), whether you solo queue or not. So if people are waking up enemies you sleep...that's kind of your own problem, and is avoidable if you go in with friends that know what they are doing and communicate.

[Syrellaris]

The proof is right there in front of your eyes, the english community in this game is just full of whiners and people being bad at pvp (which I am bad at). It is quite a difference when you read the japanese boards and find that there is hardly not a single SMNR complaint thread, while here the forums are full of it.

[Zetonegi]

The JP forums are mostly complaint threads too... They have a thread on sprint, a thread on melees constantly getting outranged by fleeing people, and a thread on gang up strats, a thread on sleep, a thread on tanks feeling like they can't tank, among others. Their comprehensive thread is riddled with complaints. The most popular thread is the comprehensive one and the 2nd most popular one is the thread on gang up strats. CLEARLY that's the problem! If the Japanese are complaining about it, it must be whats wrong with the game.

[docbon]

"If the japanese don't complain about it, it's not a problem" is the weirdest meme.

[JockAmo]

Actually, I just switched from BLM to SMN. SMN beats BLM hands-down, it's not comparable in any way.
Don't try to justify that SMN is not overpowered in PVP, it is and I admit that I hopped on the bandwagon.

Thanks for being the one summoner to stand up and admit that it's an overpowered class. If only others would quit defending it, we could really start to move in the right direction as a community.

Also tone down warriors a bit too.

[Alhanelem]

ARCANIST Lv 50

you can read! Good job.

The benefit that Miasma has over Sleep is it's idiot-proof. Once it lands it WILL last the full duration unless the healer is smart + lucky enough to cleanse it.

effect duraiton will go down each time its recast just like sleep or any other debuff. Sleep is more effective at incapacitation b/c the user can't act. With Miasma the user can act as normally and only moves slower.

Thanks for being the one summoner to stand up and admit that it's an overpowered class. If only others would quit defending it, we could really start to move in the right direction as a community.

That doesn't increase his credibility, he's just adding fuel to the fire. SMN is not hands down better than BLM, and in fact BLMs are usually in the parties that beat me. I have played PVP on SCH, PLD and BRD as well as SMN and I don't win any less with those classes.

If you want to accuse me of bandwagonism, then read syrellias' level-headed analysis.

[Shikiseki]

yes, take out the battle revive from the summoner and his dots, while you're at it, why should he summon at all?

Seriously I'm already p!ssed enough that Virus, Sustain and Thunder were clearly nerfed for PvP, the next big nerf on the SMN will make him useless in PvE, specially an utility nerf like battle revive (which is impossible to remove since that would mean the Scholar wouldn't be able to revive either -__-.
This is not fair nerfing PvE just because people lack the correct strategy to face this class. And yeah, I'm not a PvP-fan at all so all I see is nerf because people QQ.