Every PVP MMO normalizes gear in PVP

[Imapooonu]

Who are these people with 10k Wolf Marks already? Who I ask?!?

[Shiyo]

Last time I checked doing what every other mmorpg does tends to end you in f2p land. Followed by a slow and painful death of the game. Hey maybe just maybe let's try to not do what every other mmorpg is doing.... Thanks!

Gear progression based PVP is what every other MMO does. Only one single MMO currently doesn't follow this model and has the most successful MMO PVP with actual tournaments and e-sports coverage, and now WOW is following suit too.

[caspergrey]

*shrugs* It's what it is. Really, I think it's fine, and fits the personality of this game, being that the action/skill level of PvP in this game is already below the more PvP centric games out there (regardless of gear progression)

And it's no secret that while people might dislike gear progression, it's extremely effective it getting people to keep playing. There are plenty of people who play not to have fun, but so they can get things. They're just adding one more piece. I think you'll see plenty of people grinding PvP not so they can hone their skill, but so they can get the gear to dominate those lesser geared. I think arguing one way or the other just invites something akin to a religious debate. Most people won't change their opinion on this one because someone made a good point in this thread.

Personally, I think there is an audience for both. But really when it comes to PvP in this game, I think there are bigger fish to fry than "gear progression"

[BoomerOU]

Normalization takes away choices that I'm hoping SE will someday implement:

Gear that gives X skill an additional effect at the cost of Y stats, but given the group comp actually is a beneficial tradeoff.

Gear that can be customized with materia to give somrbody the flexibility to focus on a certain aspect of their class.

Gear that people can spend time min/maxing for a desired result.


I dont think gear is the problem. I think gear having a clear A < B < C progression is the problem, and normalization just serves to remove the choice from players instead of giving us meaningful/interesting decisions to make with regards to our character and role.

[ROOTFayth]

Again. The games that tried that, people get bored of the fastest. You guys don't seem to even be acknowledging that.

they didn't get bored, they were competing, a LOT of the MMO players just don't like to compete against other players, they want to have fun and competing can be stressful...
there was this thing on SC2 that some players called "ladder anxiety" which seems to be what you describe as "get bored"

[Rochetm]

2) Players will all end up the with the same gear eventually.

No everyone wont end up with the same gear eventually... not going to happen. Few days in and the balance is already shifting to those who farmed hard the first few days. In a month you will be forced to lose over and over for hours on end just to get to the point where instant death isn't what happens every single time. They locked gear and abilities behind winning. Have you seen what you get for losing? Good luck losing your way to a level where you can compete.

I don't pvp in games like these because it is nothing but a farm fest for the best gear first so people can sit around and kill weaker players. If I want pvp I will go play a FPS game or something where gear and skills are normalized...

[Churchill]

The difference is that GW2 has an actual skill tree, and actual runes that you can put on weapons/armor that significantly change your team comp.

FFXIV has no skill tree and "runes" are almost entirely predicated on resisting CC effects that weren't balanced for PvP nor was every class given a stunbreak.

[Vanidin]

The difference is that GW2 has an actual skill tree, and actual runes that you can put on weapons/armor that significantly change your team comp.

FFXIV has no skill tree and "runes" are almost entirely predicated on resisting CC effects that weren't balanced for PvP nor was every class given a stunbreak.

This is a good point, as long as abilities are balanced around pve and there are no pvp builds for classes mechanics will be uneven irregardless of gear.

CC, team comp and latency will have a far bigger effect on who wins a given match than "skill" (and let's be honest, in a click-target-then-spam-skills environment, "skill" is little more than knowing what sequence to hit and being able to land yours before they land theirs)

As long as things aren't balanced for pvp it won't matter whether it's gear progression based or carebear "everbody is equal" based.

I don't pvp in games like these because it is nothing but a farm fest for the best gear first so people can sit around and kill weaker players. If I want pvp I will go play a FPS game or something where gear and skills are normalized...

I can kinda agree with this, if you're serious about pvp and it being all about skill and stuff... you should really be playing a game designed and balanced around pvp as the focus rather than an unbalanced afterthought like it is in XIV.

[Doo]

No everyone wont end up with the same gear eventually... not going to happen. .

From experience with mmos with gear progression, the man issue are usually guilds, pre mades that play too much, and FOTMers. Regardless of gear progression or not you'll still get rofflestomp. Gear progression just needs to be done in a way that makes it so that players with better gear aren't extremely overpowered.

[Ronzeru]

I'ma point out the elephant in the room.... Everyone will try their hardest to find the easiest way out of having others be more geared than them.... don't wanna do it themselves... so want to bring everyone else down to their level... and every time those of you get what you want, you dry out the content, end up bored, then leave after ruining it with your whining for those who actually enjoyed it.