Every PVP MMO normalizes gear in PVP

[Naunet]

I agree that normalizing gear makes the arena setting far more competitive. When you even the playing field as much as possible, that is when the skilled players can truly shine. Leaderboards, vanity gear, mounts and pets, titles, rewards (could even be in the form of gil) for placing high enough for particular "seasons" of PvP - all of these can motivate PvP. Gear is not necessary in arena-style PvP.

[Zumi]

Bad idea, it wouldn't give people a reason to PvP if they couldn't earn better PvP gear.

[Vanidin]

IT IS NOT FUN TO LOSE DUE TO GEAR.

THEN GET BETTER GEAR.

It's PVP, take gear out of the equation and victory is decided by who has either more or more effective CC unless one team simply derps their way to a loss.

[yuixjfa]

Gear progression does not belong in PVP. WOW is normalizing gear in Arenas for a reason, this is not 2004 anymore, no one likes gear progression or gear imbalances in PVP, especially arena PVP. The most successful MMO on the planet is normalizing gear in PVP, everyone else should follow suit unless they don't like money.

Gear progression should be PVE and world PVP only.

IT IS NOT FUN TO LOSE DUE TO GEAR.

... Have you perhaps maybe thought that you lost due to another reason side from just "gear"?

[kasuke06]

Uh... I had fun in WoW with earning PVP gear. It gave me a sense of advancement, to see that I was able to keep healing my team for longer since it took the rogue too long to chew through my HP and the warrior charged him and got him off me, which didn't happen the first time I was in the battlegrounds. I died in horrifically short order because I had no gear, no time investment, no honed reflexes or fine tuned talents.

I went from being practically one-shot and panicking every time something so much as blinked at me, to a badass paladin healer who would charge into the fray, laugh off being stabbed in the spine, stun the rogue so that our rogue could work him over and if I was in the fight, not one ally would fall until I was dead from around 6 billion damage due to my combination of powerful tank, and massive throughput on healing.

I fully support PvP gear. I hate people who want things "normalized". It's just because they're lazy and want what the good players have because they think that's the only thing separating them from being #1 on the world charts. It isn't, the things separating you from being the best are time, effort, instinct, skill, trust, and gear. you don't have all, or I'm guessing, any of those, so you don't deserve to win.

[IndigoHawk]

A good way to handle gear gap is to normalize gear that's woefully inadequate. For example, make the baseline i70 PVP gear. If anyone has gear less than that, dynamically buff it to i70. Then people who want to grind for advantage can grind to i90.

This makes PVP accessible to more people while still letting grinders stack the deck.

[Shiyo]

Bad idea, it wouldn't give people a reason to PvP if they couldn't earn better PvP gear.

Completely wrong.
Arena participation has greatly deceased since the mid CAT era - season 10, where gear became the main deciding factor in winning arenas. It has only since then gotten worse, thus the change to eliminating gear from PVP entirely and changing it to preset gear.

Active 3v3 teams

• Season 3 29796
• Season 4 16288
• Season 5 6983
• Season 6 7460
• Season 7 7219
• Season 8 9091
• Season 9 8715
• Season 10 4487
• Season 11 2767

http://www.arenajunkies.com/tools/ti...ator/?season=3

PVP gear existed the entire time, yet the numbers kept decreasing and decreasing because gear progression does not make people PVP. The complete opposite is true - the bigger the gap in gear tiers, the less interested people become in PVP.

Again - if the idea is so bad, why is the most successful MMO in the world for 10 years and still going doing it? Why were so many players so happy and joyed when it was announced? The reason is simple: it's not a bad idea, it's what anyone who cares about any type of balanced, fun, competitive PVP wants. The most popular forum for all the highest rated players of WOW arenas, arena junkies, have asked for pre-set gear for over 5 years now. There are private WOW servers with preset gear because it's what people want.

Where is your factual data to back up your claim, Zumi?

Vanity items, mounts, cosmetics, pets, hair styles, crafting mats, titles, all these things can come from PVP. Gear is not the only solution to everything.

How about there be two modes, one that let's you use any gear and has gear progression, and another type that's preset gear and purely competitive with only cosmetic rewards, titles, mounts, pets, etc?

[Vanidin]

Again - if the idea is so bad, why is the most successful MMO in the world for 10 years and still going doing it?

Who cares why wow is doing something? If you like it so much go pvp there! Blizzard is homogenizing and watering down the entire game to try and milk casuals that are happy with a bland playing experience for as long as they can. PVP is competitive, people play it primarily to compete against other people... thus rewards that improve that experience (such as making you more powerful) work well. Congratulating that team that grinded all year long to be the best by letting them buy some lame hair styles and mounts they'll most likely never use (because they like to pvp not sit around afk with vanity items on) doesn't exactly match the rewards with the activity.

I pvp'd in wow because I enjoyed getting better gear and becoming a bigger and bigger force on the battlefield. I wanted to wreck face, and continue to wreck face even better and harder, not because I wanted to get that omgsocute minion.

If you want "normalized" gear why not just advocate for everybody to pvp naked with weathered weapons.

BTW, how does your factual data correlate to overall populations?
(Hint: those active team numbers mean nothing unless you provide something like overall population to give some kind of perspective)

[Alexia89]

No offence but dwindling numbers in WoW arena teams doesnt necessarily come down to gear.
Theres just a lot more options for MMOs and PvP now then there was in Season 3.
Better options i might add. I do not support normalisation. I dont TERRIBLY mind giving everyone baseline i70 and then grinding to the i90, but bads who lose and blame it on gear dont need anything more handed to them for free.

[Kirschey]

My premade group in the ilvl 55 pvp gear beats groups in allagan, maybe gear isn't your issue here?
I enjoy having gear progression in pvp, and something to work towards.