Huge SMN nerf: we're losing Thunder

[whoopeeragon]

If the class is designed to focus on launching Dots and working around that mechanic, then they should have access to all of the DoTs in this cross class system.

Right, a SMN using Fracture, Circle of Scorn, Touch of Death, Demolish, Phlebotomize, Chaos Thrust, Windbite, Venomous Bite, Burning Arrow, Aero, Aero II, and all the Thunder spells.

Like THAT wouldn't be broken. It's like saying as a support job, WHM should have access to every single support/healing/buff skill cross-class.

Even without Thunder, SMNs have access to FIVE DoTs. More than any other job - 2 more than the ones following after (BRD and MNK each with 3 potential DoTs).

[Shiyo]

It's weird that SCH now does more DOT damage than Summoner and Monk has as many DOT's as the "DOT" class.

Ehm.. what?

Thunder was useless for a summoner at lvl 50, I used it for leveling up but after that, i just did away with it. It was really not worth the casting time if you knew how to utilize your other skills correctly.

You're literally doing 10% less damage by not using thunder. Please do not spread wrong information.

[Syrellaris]

Patch notes: "Thunder Can now only be used by thaumaturge and black mage."

Thunder is at least 10% - 15% of SMN total DPS (including pet). This is a pretty big nerf for SMN... especially considering melee DPS classes are getting buffed.

Well, time to go BLM.. except for all this myth I spent.

Oh, and Allagan Boots nerf:
Before: INT+18, VIT+18, Critical Hit Rate+21, Accuracy+15
After: INT+18, VIT+18, Spell Speed+21, Determination+11

Ehm.. what?

Thunder was useless for a summoner at lvl 50, I used it for leveling up but after that, i just did away with it. It was really not worth the casting time if you knew how to utilize your other skills correctly.

The issue wasn't that Summoners were ahead in dps or not, and that is very debatable, the problem is the class is supposed to be a DoT class and they took away one of their DoTs, which makes no sense. If the class is designed to focus on launching Dots and working around that mechanic, then they should have access to all of the DoTs in this cross class system.

Yes it is a DoT based class, however only for the dots it has native. Bio, Bio II and Miasma. These 3 dots are your power house and utilized correctly will out do the damage done with Thunder all together. Hell even if you add in Aero it still does not get near the damage you can get from just your 3 native skills. Learn to use ED, Bane and Fester correctly together with your pet skills. Oh and don't forget Shadow Flare.

[Ri_ri]

You go on and on about how you use your skills "correctly", but still has no solid evidence of how Thunder (which is the same as Miasma but 6 sec less of duration) is "useless".

[Ecks007]

Even without Thunder, SMNs have access to FIVE DoTs. More than any other job - 2 more than the ones following after (BRD and MNK each with 3 potential DoTs).

Wait, what? Maybe I'm slightly confused, but I can only think of 4 DoTs that we have access to. And of those (since we no longer have Thunder) I really only use 3, with Miasma II being a "if I happen to be up close to the mob(s)" 4th.

Ehm.. what?

Thunder was useless for a summoner at lvl 50, I used it for leveling up but after that, i just did away with it. It was really not worth the casting time if you knew how to utilize your other skills correctly.

Then you were "Doing it wrong." by not having in your rotation. I feel almost naked not having it any more.

And Blizzard 2? Utterly useless for a cross-class skill. I see no need to ever place it on my bar. They could have at least given us something useful to replace it. As is, I only use 2 cross class abilities now, Raging Strikes and Swift Cast.

[Parodine]

Right, a SMN using Fracture, Circle of Scorn, Touch of Death, Demolish, Phlebotomize, Chaos Thrust, Windbite, Venomous Bite, Burning Arrow, Aero, Aero II, and all the Thunder spells.

Like THAT wouldn't be broken. It's like saying as a support job, WHM should have access to every single support/healing/buff skill cross-class.

Even without Thunder, SMNs have access to FIVE DoTs. More than any other job - 2 more than the ones following after (BRD and MNK each with 3 potential DoTs).

Your comment is ridiculous. They obviously weren't asking for all DoT's to be cross-skilled, just one. SMN only has 4 cross-class skills it can use since Hawk's Eye is physical accuracy only and quelling strikes is mostly useless since we have little enmity generation up front. And even if we got physical DoTs, how would that be overpowered? They would do literally 2dmg a tick because we're hitting it with a book to make them. >_> And Blizzard II is mostly useless out of PVP, really. I hardly use Surecast, either. Effectively it's just Raging Strikes and Swiftcast now, which is lame.

Shadowflare isn't the same as most DoTs, and Miasma II is mostly pathetic with its 15 (or is it even lower?) potency and short duration.

All that being said, losing Thunder isn't breaking SMN, but people are delusional if they think it didn't hurt our DPS or thought it was useless at 50.

[Mishakai]

Man, with all the complaints, you'd think the thunder nerf is over 9000 or something.

[whoopeeragon]

Wait, what? Maybe I'm slightly confused, but I can only think of 4 DoTs that we have access to. And of those (since we no longer have Thunder) I really only use 3, with Miasma II being a "if I happen to be up close to the mob(s)" 4th.

Shadow Flare? That's a DoT as well.

[ispano]

Ehm.. what?

Thunder was useless for a summoner at lvl 50, I used it for leveling up but after that, i just did away with it. It was really not worth the casting time if you knew how to utilize your other skills correctly.

As Ecks said, you were doing it wrong. Thunder is 240 potency for the one cast. That's triple what Ruin does. It gives you the same potency for the GCD that Bio does.

[Syrellaris]

perhaps useless was a strong word and over exaggerated. However it wasn't that great either and it hardly boosted our dps. 15% is over exaggerating it by a lot. Even if you used thunder it was what, one of the last few dots to put up and one of the first to be canned when conserving. Even without it, i still out did most summoners in full DL / Allagan / myth gear (or mix match of all 3) and I stopped using it since around lvl 45 or so.

As for blizzard 2.. it's usefulness is debatable.. I've yet to find a decent use. perhaps pvp?