Yoshi-P says WHM was not nerfed, situation similar to "warrior is strong" fiasco

[Godly]

holy should have never had 240 potency in the first place.

an AOE stun ability on a healer with 20 less potency than flare, Whatsthisidonteven....

everything else i can agree with, or disagree with. not sure. we'll see when servers are live...

Yes, the high potency with added stun looks OP but they offset it by making the cast time longer than the gcd + extremely high mp costs thus making it a low DPM(damage/mp) which is very inefficient dps esp to whm whose mp is one of the most precious resources compared to a sch's mp(always make comparison to other classes on the same role). Decent whms found niche encounters to unleash the true potential of holy to devastating effects bypassing the mp management needed for holy thru ooc mp regen & ballad and no aoe limit is just icing on the cake with each additional monsters being calculated as extra dps which just make holy dps skyrocket during a 10 mob pull.

[Vhailor]

The purpose of this post is to highlight the mistakes made by the class balance devs & Yoshi-P's statement of WHM was not nerfed as per Reinheart translation.

I respect your opinion on medica2(won't need to recast much, HoT being wasted, overhealing) but you do not nerf the mechanics of a spell just because of bad whms who do not know how to utilize the true potential of medica2.

Imagine as a dps, your DoTs is 100 potency over 15sec. Devs decided to 'buff' it like medica2, halving potency but double the duration to 50 potency over 30sec. Looks the same on paper right? True fact is you just lost 50% of your dps.

This is extremely deceptive. When playing the role of a damage dealer, there is almost never a reason to slow down your rate of damage (short of very specific boss mechanics like Odin in FFXI). There is routinely a reason to slow down the rate of healing; if someone's at capped HP, that Medica II regen is doing absolutely nothing. Nothing. It's not being stored up in some magical pool that will heal them as they take damage or something like that. While I won't go so far as to agree completely with the tweak to WHM (as with everyone else, I haven't tested it yet), the reasoning is sound, unlike your misplaced analogy.

As to the remainder of your comments - some are reasonable, some are not. The Holy nerf is no big deal, and frankly most of us expected it. You can fault them for trying to put a positive spin on it if you want, but you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The Cure III buff is probably too small as well; the range needs a more dramatic increase, up to 10-12y probably. Especially on larger mobs, DD can be fairly spread out. Your reasoning as to why it isn't used is ridiculous; efficiency has nothing to do with whether a spell is used - only whether it is spammed. If the fight mechanics benefit from targeted AoE, then C3 will get used, provided its range is increased to a reasonable level. This is the only reason the spell exists, and situations requiring it will dictate its use, not how it stacks up for efficiency.

Also, seriously? A PvP nerf? Because it's not like they haven't already introduced PvP-specific mechanics or abilities or anything like that. They couldn't possibly modify Holy for just that reason - no sir.

Seriously, I get that you have complaints, and a lot of them are valid - but your logical reasoning is deeply flawed and overly reactive. Have a bit of perspective, and be more targeted and precise with your observations.

[VisRalis]

WHM doesn't need to be any simpler than it already is.

Two sides to this.
As much as I would love some real 'advanced' healing with ability to control potency.
FFXIV isn't advanced like that (enough) / just isn't.

So WHM adjustments (and in a way all other adjustments) are in a way, more 'as intended' to suit FFXIV's intended style/class design concept.
Which I believe is what's causing the restrictive feeling to players with diverse experiences in other MMO's.

So as much as I love the technical and advanced discussion of front load healing, net healing, over-healing and etcetera.
It's over the top for a game like this.

[Ricky]

Yes, the high potency with added stun looks OP but they offset it by making the cast time longer than the gcd + extremely high mp costs thus making it a low DPM(damage/mp) which is very inefficient dps esp to whm whose mp is one of the most precious resources compared to a sch's mp(always make comparison to other classes on the same role). Decent whms found niche encounters to unleash the true potential of holy to devastating effects bypassing the mp management needed for holy thru ooc mp regen & ballad and no aoe limit is just icing on the cake with each additional monsters being calculated as extra dps which just make holy dps skyrocket during a 10 mob pull.

come on dude, MP was never an issue, you're funny

[Marishi-Ten]

No it wasn't, you guys just want to interpret it that way because you don't like the nerf to begin with. Please don't act like martyrs because Yoshi wants a healing class to play like...a healing class. Holy was clearly not as niche as anybody thought it would be when in the context of 4 man dungeons and was clearly stealing BLM's thunder.


But don't worry, it still has an AOE stun, decent potency, and is still useless for top end content anyway which is where we should be focusing our attention...ie the Medica II nerf.

Two things:

1.) Because Coil/CT is the end all and be all for XIV right? You're fooling yourself if you actually think 2 end game instances is all XIV is.

Granted, I don't use Holy often as I prefer to DoT/Stone II (not as much up front MP cost while giving me the flexibility to drop in and out of Cleric Stance on the fly). Though, if you're the "WHM should heal onry" type, it won't matter what my argument is as I'll be fundamentally wrong in your eyes.

2.) Holy is viable in Turn 4 against spiders. Lowering it's damage means more time wasted raising the chances of running into problems down the line.

[Godly]

Medica II change isn't a nerf its a change its actually better now. No whm should be spamming Medica II ever because it will pull hate so fast. Making the HoT heal the same but take more time is actually better because as it is now Medica II does so much overhealing, now if its spread out over a longer period of time its likly people will take more damage and thus less overhealing.

It is a change + nerf. Yes, no decent whm will spam medica2, not because of hate, its because of HPM and you will pull hate faster by spamming medica1 instead. Making the HoT component heal the same but take more time is indeed better in terms of DPM however, the HoT potency is being halved so its definitely not better. Overhealing on medica2 is not dependent on the period of time. It will overheal for bad whms pre & post 2.1 changes. The good ones are the ones who will squeeze every tick as an effective heal putting HPM as priority.

[Godly]

The purpose of this post is to highlight the mistakes made by the class balance devs & Yoshi-P's statement of WHM was not nerfed as per Reinheart translation.

maybe I am seeing things wrong but is this not half by half?

so 100 to 50 = -50%
and 15 - 30 = -50%
so over the same time as before would it not be down 75% from before?
like 1000 points healed in 15 secs now 500 in 30 seconds so that would be 250 points in 15 secs when it was 1000
am I wrong?

100 potency to 50 potency = -50%
15sec to 30 sec = +50%
over the same time its the same 100%
like 1000hp healed in 15sec but now its 1000hp healed in 30sec so that would be 500hp healed in 15sec when it was 1000
omg I think I be confused soon

[Marishi-Ten]

Two sides to this.
As much as I would love some real 'advanced' healing with ability to control potency.
FFXIV isn't advanced like that (enough) / just isn't.

So WHM adjustments (and in a way all other adjustments) are in a way, more 'as intended' to suit FFXIV's intended style/class design concept.
Which I believe is what's causing the restrictive feeling to players with diverse experiences in other MMO's.

So as much as I love the technical and advanced discussion of front load healing, net healing, over-healing and etcetera.
It's over the top for a game like this.

So we should accept that there isn't diversity and that it's "working as intended"? What's sad it that it doesn't have to be this way but Square is HELLBENT on forcing EVERYONE down the same path. I dunno. I guess I had the hope of having some kind of flexibility where not everyone was the same exact makeup as the other. Square should just give me canned responses for my FC when someone has a question. Better yet, give me a training coursein a power point presentation. Wouldn't want to get caught trying to do my own thing and think for myself. Nerf bats get brought out if we do.

This is what Yoshi wants? This is what he learned from other companies? Tanaka wasn't a saint, but damn, at least he had a vision of different make ups and configurations by giving some power to the people that played.

[indira]

come on dude, MP was never an issue, you're funny

play outside in the DF then yeah you will be running out of MP from people eating every AOE a boss can put out.

[Godly]

Snip

My analogy is not misplaced, I was using the dps comparison to hps to explain why it is a 50% nerfed. Its not a tweak, its a 50% nerf, I really do not understand why there are people like you & some of the others here who still cannot see the nerf to HPS.

I am not making a mountain out of a mole hill for holy, if you could not understand the consequences of accepting a nerf based on a disingenuous reason, then theres no point talking further. Its not about the nerf, its the reason why.

I am referring to the decent whms who are not using cure3. You may be the ones that use it, I am not sure. Know why decent whms use cure1 to fish for cure2 procs? Its efficiency aka HPM. I stated clearly it is because of cure3 HPM per target which includes the pitiful range.

Look at bard's shadowbind, its so obvious it is due to PvP. Blizzard2 crossed class available to all DoM not because of PvP? Well wait, I am so sure its because of FATEs.

Read the last para why I made the post. You need to put in more effort in your posts though.