So Summoners! Someone posted this on reddit. Discuss!

[Kevee]

You didn't lose Thunder 2 months ago.

Only thing for certain here is you can't now until 2.1 hits and you go out and do some testing to confirm.

Theorycrafting based on tests performed in 2.0 suggest, however, that the loss of Thunder not only diminishes SMN DPS by small chunk, but also significantly diminishes the value and effect of Contagion (the skill that was the primary reason Garuda > Ifrit universally) and gives Ifrit the edge.

Ifrit straight out parses less than Garuda.

Like I said, we've already been over this 2 months ago.

I'm not acting like that, I'm taking it into consideration. Simply put if you can use Contagion from Garuda every cooldown and use Ifrit for the rest then it SHOULD be stronger.

Also, if not switching pets mid-fight and also not fighting more than one mob (because Contagion > Bane is really strong) then Ifrit SHOULD (this means im speculating on how the SMN should work and not how it may or may not actually work) be stronger than Garuda for the same reason that Melee are getting buffed (IE Ifrit is going to die).

To say Ifrit SHOULD never be used is a waste of an action I'd rather push SMN and/or SE if not balanced, rather than have a job with 4 actions instead of 5. Or in this case more than 1 pet to use.

Can you even read?

This is one of the things SMNs were mad about.

All we got was stuff taken, and none of our issues were addressed.

[NoctisUmbra]

Ifrit straight out parses less than Garuda.

Like I said, we've already been over this 2 months ago.

This topic is about 2.1.

Until there are parses from 2.1, you're 2 month old parses don't apply. They are nice for theorycrafting, but are not evident of anything.

[Kevee]

This topic is about 2.1.

Until there are parses from 2.1, you're 2 month old parses don't apply. They are nice for theorycrafting, but are not evident of anything.

Yes, what is changing about Ifrit in 2.1? Or Garuda?

Oh, nothing?

Those parses were just straight Obey on the dummy.

Garuda did more.

Garuda has contagion.

Ifrit has nothing.

[NoctisUmbra]

Yes, what is changing about Ifrit in 2.1? Or Garuda?

Oh, nothing?

Those parses were just straight Obey on the dummy.

Garuda did more.

Garuda has contagion.

Ifrit has nothing.

That sounds like a very accurate parse. Funny how parses suggesting the opposite exist. Oh, the dilemma. Perhaps your Ifrit has bad AI?

[Kevee]

That sounds like a very accurate parse. Funny how parses suggesting the opposite exist. Oh, the dilemma. Perhaps your Ifrit has bad AI?

I'm pretty sure a 2 hour parse of pets(obey) on the dummy is more valid than whatever parse you claim to have.

[BlueCoconut]

Hey All!

So the post on reddit was mine.

I did do my own parse of ifrit egi on obey vs garuda egi on obey, and it turned out in my ~5 minute test that ifrit egi won. That said, it was a quick personal verification, and since it matched my expectations, I moved on and didn't actually look at the crit %. It is very possible that the crits favored ifrit in such a small sample, and my test was wrong.

For that reason, as i stated on the reddit post, I will be testing this again as soon as I get back into the game on tuesday. Once I have a better estimate for pet damage, I'll get a better sense of the garuda vs ifrit argument.

That said, if ifrit egi fails to out dps garuda egi straight up, then yes, obviously garuda egi wins.

[OmegaNovaios]

Yes, what is changing about Ifrit in 2.1? Or Garuda?

Oh, nothing?

Those parses were just straight Obey on the dummy.

Garuda did more.

Garuda has contagion.

Ifrit has nothing.

Considering that Ifrit attacks much more often than Garuda and pet Crits give the Caster a duration buff to Casting Speed (I think +30%) that allows for 1 additional Ruin (80 Potency) for that rotation. Which can't be parsed by looking at the pet individually. But from my testing Ifrit on obey V Garuda on obey the DMG is VERY close.

Also, I don't know which parser your using but from my past experiences parsers are horrible, particularly for SMN (they can't detect DOT crits, they can't detect AOE hotspots like Shadow Flare and Flaming Arrow, they seem to have issues not calculating non-critting DOTs on multiple mobs, and I'm sure there are other issues that I personally overlooked).

[BlueCoconut]

But from my testing Ifrit on obey V Garuda on obey the DMG is VERY close.

If garuda and ifrit egi were close in their own DPS, then garuda egi will win.

The threshold is at around 15% extra dps on ifrit egi. (eg. If ifrit egi did 15% more dps than garuda egi, then ifrit egi would globally be more useful than garuda egi). In my simulation, Ifrit-egi was 25% more damage than garuda egi, therefore giving me the result that Ifrit egi was better.

That said, I may have been wrong / not had enough statistics when I did my own parsing checks. As i eddited to include on the reddit post, I will be re-checking these tomorrow when the servers are back up.

[OmegaNovaios]

If garuda and ifrit egi were close in their own DPS, then garuda egi will win.

The threshold is at around 15% extra dps on ifrit egi. (eg. If ifrit egi did 15% more dps than garuda egi, then ifrit egi would globally be more useful than garuda egi). In my simulation, Ifrit-egi was 25% more damage than garuda egi, therefore giving me the result that Ifrit egi was better.

That said, I may have been wrong / not had enough statistics when I did my own parsing checks. As i eddited to include on the reddit post, I will be re-checking these tomorrow when the servers are back up.

Hmm, if that's true then Ifrit needs a potency boost. It's weird seeing Garuda do around 200 DMG with 100 Potency based attack and Ifrit doing 140 DMG with 120 Potency attack and a 60 DMG auto attack.

[Hitokirinomad]

I disagree. They didn't change the potency or cast times or anything at all about Ifrit or Garuda. They changed the effective value of Contagion. The *actual* pet DPS between the two has not changed based on ANYTHING in the patch notes. So Ifrit wasn't being used because 1) no contagion, 2) less pet DPS and 3), less survivability in melee. 2.1 changes none of that besides the relative value of contagion, which is still far better in any situation where you can Bane.

Unless you have anything that refutes the above statement, then Kevee is correct.