So Summoners! Someone posted this on reddit. Discuss!

[BlueCoconut]

Hey All!

So the post on reddit was mine.

I did do my own parse of ifrit egi on obey vs garuda egi on obey, and it turned out in my ~5 minute test that ifrit egi won. That said, it was a quick personal verification, and since it matched my expectations, I moved on and didn't actually look at the crit %. It is very possible that the crits favored ifrit in such a small sample, and my test was wrong.

For that reason, as i stated on the reddit post, I will be testing this again as soon as I get back into the game on tuesday. Once I have a better estimate for pet damage, I'll get a better sense of the garuda vs ifrit argument.

That said, if ifrit egi fails to out dps garuda egi straight up, then yes, obviously garuda egi wins.

[xardus]

I disagree. They didn't change the potency or cast times or anything at all about Ifrit or Garuda. They changed the effective value of Contagion. The *actual* pet DPS between the two has not changed based on ANYTHING in the patch notes. So Ifrit wasn't being used because 1) no contagion, 2) less pet DPS and 3), less survivability in melee. 2.1 changes none of that besides the relative value of contagion, which is still far better in any situation where you can Bane.

Unless you have anything that refutes the above statement, then Kevee is correct.

ifrit isnt so light armored as u think,i was using to take ifrit in most of 50dung with great results,castrum ak,wp...then popped out theory about garuda and contagion and yes its better combined with rs and dots,and helps you to take a breath for countdown,but ifrit is very very good believe me! of course you have to manage him better redirecting at right time and so on ,but does his work

[Seobit]

Even if they were to remove contagion from garuda entirely, she'd still be better than ifrit.

I've also read accounts of ifrit having a higher accuracy requirement than garuda. I haven't done the testing myself because I never had any interest in running ifrit, but it you were planning on it it's something you should look into.

[Hitokirinomad]

/snip

You realize that this is not an actual test of DPS right? And even if it was, no fight that is significant last <40 sec? I also don't think Ifrit is more lightly armored than Garuda, I think that being in melee puts him in more danger than Garuda is, and the extra micromanagement lowers your personal DPS. Also, fights where you pet gets targeted, having him right up near the tank is a no-no (WP, Chimera, Hydra immediately spring to mind, haven't taken Ifrit higher than that).

And Noctis, can you link to these parses? The reddit thread was a simulation and the OP in it has said he might have 'missed some things'. I haven't seen anyone else parse and post, and the 450k seems like enough time to be a good test.

[OmegaNovaios]

Yes, what is changing about Ifrit in 2.1? Or Garuda?

Oh, nothing?

Those parses were just straight Obey on the dummy.

Garuda did more.

Garuda has contagion.

Ifrit has nothing.

Considering that Ifrit attacks much more often than Garuda and pet Crits give the Caster a duration buff to Casting Speed (I think +30%) that allows for 1 additional Ruin (80 Potency) for that rotation. Which can't be parsed by looking at the pet individually. But from my testing Ifrit on obey V Garuda on obey the DMG is VERY close.

Also, I don't know which parser your using but from my past experiences parsers are horrible, particularly for SMN (they can't detect DOT crits, they can't detect AOE hotspots like Shadow Flare and Flaming Arrow, they seem to have issues not calculating non-critting DOTs on multiple mobs, and I'm sure there are other issues that I personally overlooked).

[Seobit]

Because pets only use direct attacks, the parsers are very accurate for them.

The bonus from enhanced pet action is 20% increase to the spell speed stat and does not translate into a 20% cast speed increase, not even close.

[BlueCoconut]

But from my testing Ifrit on obey V Garuda on obey the DMG is VERY close.

If garuda and ifrit egi were close in their own DPS, then garuda egi will win.

The threshold is at around 15% extra dps on ifrit egi. (eg. If ifrit egi did 15% more dps than garuda egi, then ifrit egi would globally be more useful than garuda egi). In my simulation, Ifrit-egi was 25% more damage than garuda egi, therefore giving me the result that Ifrit egi was better.

That said, I may have been wrong / not had enough statistics when I did my own parsing checks. As i eddited to include on the reddit post, I will be re-checking these tomorrow when the servers are back up.

[OmegaNovaios]

If garuda and ifrit egi were close in their own DPS, then garuda egi will win.

The threshold is at around 15% extra dps on ifrit egi. (eg. If ifrit egi did 15% more dps than garuda egi, then ifrit egi would globally be more useful than garuda egi). In my simulation, Ifrit-egi was 25% more damage than garuda egi, therefore giving me the result that Ifrit egi was better.

That said, I may have been wrong / not had enough statistics when I did my own parsing checks. As i eddited to include on the reddit post, I will be re-checking these tomorrow when the servers are back up.

Hmm, if that's true then Ifrit needs a potency boost. It's weird seeing Garuda do around 200 DMG with 100 Potency based attack and Ifrit doing 140 DMG with 120 Potency attack and a 60 DMG auto attack.

[T0rin]

Garuda is better even if you don't include Contagion. This guy is trying to theorycraft from scratch, not knowing half of what he is talking about, and spewing incorrect results.

The new BiS set will be:

Summoner's Horn
Summoner's Doublet
Summoner's Ringbands
Allagan Rope Belt of Casting
Allagan Breeches of Casting
Allagan Boots of Casting
Hero's Necklace of Casting
Tremor Earring of Casting
Hero's Bracelet of Casting
Hero's Ring of Casting
Vortex Ring of Casting

448 accuracy. As a SMN, when you see a thread posted by someone saying 'this is the new best <whatever>' and his BiS set has 432 accuracy, consider that a huge red flag. Take everything else they say with a grain of salt.

Also, what do you guys think about this? http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/aee840713e3/

Omnitome
69 magic damage
32 vit
31 int
37 acc
26 spell speed
+ friggin' epic skin

Too bad our upgraded Allagan tome blows it out of the water from a DPS perspective...

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/387cd387c23/

Allagan Grimoire of Casting
_71_ magic damage
35 vit
34 int
_39_ crit
19 det

But, I'll probably snag the new i90 tome to use until my Allagan pants drop, or my Allagan book drops, either one.

[NeoAmon]

Garuda is better even if you don't include Contagion. This guy is trying to theorycraft from scratch, not knowing half of what he is talking about, and spewing incorrect results.

The new BiS set will be:

Summoner's Horn
Summoner's Doublet
Summoner's Ringbands
Allagan Rope Belt of Casting
Allagan Breeches of Casting
Allagan Boots of Casting
Hero's Necklace of Casting
Tremor Earring of Casting
Hero's Bracelet of Casting
Hero's Ring of Casting
Vortex Ring of Casting

448 accuracy. As a SMN, when you see a thread posted by someone saying 'this is the new best <whatever>' and his BiS set has 432 accuracy, consider that a huge red flag. Take everything else they say with a grain of salt.

lol noob, smn needz no acc, l2p.

^ I swear I had this argument on my server with a T4 Coil SMN, worst he had support from other players.